Scope Rings and Windage errors question.

I decided to go with EGW 20 moa rails and Warne scope rings about a year ago as they seemed very solid as well as affordable. So I changed out all the mounts on my target rifles and have been happy with the results. I shoot mostly two and three hundred yards so windage has never been an issue until recently while shooting at 1000 yds. That's when I noticed that my Vortex scope had only several minutes of adjustment to the left and a bunch to the right (good because this range is mostly right to left crosswinds).

I've noticed that some rings have windage adjustments, but most do not. Since I am building up a new 6mmBR, what rings (30mm) do you recommend that do have windage adjustments and are picatinny style mounts?

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Originally Posted by Texas10

I decided to go with EGW 20 moa rails and Warne scope rings about a year ago as they seemed very solid as well as affordable. So I changed out all the mounts on my target rifles and have been happy with the results. I shoot mostly two and three hundred yards so windage has never been an issue until recently while shooting at 1000 yds. That's when I noticed that my Vortex scope had only several minutes of adjustment to the left and a bunch to the right (good because this range is mostly right to left crosswinds).

I've noticed that some rings have windage adjustments, but most do not. Since I am building up a new 6mmBR, what rings (30mm) do you recommend that do have windage adjustments and are picatinny style mounts?

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We had the same issue with a Vortex Viper on a long range gun a few years ago.
I suppose you could use the Burris rings with the inserts for windage as well as elevation, and that would be my first attempt due to cost.
But we bought the US Optics windage adjustable rings which work very well, but are also are very pricey.

If I have issues like this I check the optical center of the scope. Once I verify that the optical center is close to the adjustment center, I have reversed the rings and the problem remains I check to see if the the axis of the action, barrel and base screw holes the same. If the action was purchased used then I look at the bolt raceway to see if the rails are true.

I like the Warne rings also. Something about the fit of the vertical split rings.

Burris Extreme Tactical Signature rings are a good solution. They are nice and "beefy" with 6 screw caps and use the pos-align inserts which will allow you to adjust for errors in base mounting or internally with the scope.

First thing I'd be interested in finding out is whether or not the error in the scope (if that's where it is) is "fixed" or "fluid", meaning it changes with any outside force like jarring, heavy recoil, etc.

It may be worthwhile to send the scope to the Mfr to have the problem corrected if it's determined to be a scope error. If it's a matter of mis-drilled holes in the action, the XTR Signature rings are a good solution.

Another thing with the Vortex scopes, at least the Viper model is they are very sensitive to ring pressure caused by tight screws.
That was another issue we had, and a call from a factory rep told me that 15 inch pounds was the max setting on the screws.
I never needed a torque wrench till that scope showed up.
At 15 inch pounds with a 338x378, good luck in keeping it from sliding in the rings.
But lo and behold we found the cure. lol

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Originally Posted by yobuck

Another thing with the Vortex scopes, at least the Viper model is they are very sensitive to ring pressure caused by tight screws.
That was another issue we had, and a call from a factory rep told me that 15 inch pounds was the max setting on the screws.
I never needed a torque wrench till that scope showed up.
At 15 inch pounds with a 338x378, good luck in keeping it from sliding in the rings.
But lo and behold we found the cure. lol

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Some powdered rosin in the bottom rings before you install the scope and some more in the caps before you put them in place. That should hold the scope with just about any rifle you'd want to shoulder fire.

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Originally Posted by Deadshot2

Some powdered rosin in the bottom rings before you install the scope and some more in the caps before you put them in place. That should hold the scope with just about any rifle you'd want to shoulder fire.

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This gun as well as others we use for hunting are in the 20# range as for weight, and are always shot from a bench or rest of some type.
While i don't doubt what your saying would help with the slipping, fact is weve never had to do that with other scopes, and didn't do it with the one that replaced the Vortex either.

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Originally Posted by yobuck

This gun as well as others we use for hunting are in the 20# range as for weight, and are always shot from a bench or rest of some type.
While i don't doubt what your saying would help with the slipping, fact is weve never had to do that with other scopes, and didn't do it with the one that replaced the Vortex either.

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Rosin has been used to keep scopes from moving in rings for a real long time but only when necessary. Some rings just don't grip as well as others. The idea is to get enough grip with nominal torque on the cap screws to hold. Not have to tighten down to the point the tube is squashed. If you don't need it, great. Just tossed it out for the benefit of those who might be puzzled as to why they can't "get a grip" on their scope and don't want to crush it. I've seen tape used and with some cheap rings it comes installed from the factory. In my experience a good set of high quality rings with a high quality scope and you won't need rosin. It does provide a cost effective cure and only leaves behind a residue that can be cleaned off with alcohol.

Glad you solved your problem.

I like the tip Deadshot. Quality rings and increasing the contact by lapping helps too.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

Quality rings and increasing the contact by lapping helps too.

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Very true but Quality Rings usually don't need to be lapped if installed on totally true bases. Today I will only buy Seekins (or the Vortex made by Seekins) and before installing permanently on the rifle I clamp them down on a lapping bar, then clamp them onto the rail I'm going to use (all screws torqued to specs. I leave the mounting holes on the rail exposed and then bed the rail to the action.

By clamping to the lapping bar I know that the rings are properly aligned to each other. By clamping the rings to the picatinney rail I force any possible error in "straight" out of it. By then bedding the entire assembly to the action, I have eliminated any potential misalignment caused by irregularities on the action.

This has proven very effective in making some pretty cheap rings line up well enough that one stroke with the lapping bar shows a high percentage of contact.

FWIW, even the high end rings can give a false indication of mis-alignment when starting to lap them if clamped to a rail that isn't perfectly straight.

Well lapping the rings was another recommendation from the Vortex rep.
So along with the Fat Wrench torque driver, I also ordered a set of lapping tools and used those also.
I went so far as to check all our other scope rings also, and found nothing.
All I can say is that ive been around hunting scopes since they started becoming popular in the early 50s.
Most people then were using cheap bases and rings like Weaver, and just tightened them down till they thought the screws would break if they went further, and on occaision one would break.
I think Bruce Baer summed it up well when I asked him his opinion.
He said its because many of the cheap freaking scopes today have tubes only slightly better than tinfoil.
In todays society, that's a totally unacceptable comment. lol

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Originally Posted by yobuck

He said its because many of the cheap freaking scopes today have tubes only slightly better than tinfoil.
In todays society, that's a totally unacceptable comment. lol

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It's a product of today's mentality. People want MORE but don't want to pay extra. People want that Uber-Tacticool scope with large objective, side focus, illuminated reticle, huge magnification (along with a wide range), and don't realize that every one of those features costs money when properly done. As a result the market is flooded with cheap product that starts with soft aluminum tubes.

A lot of scopes today are manufactured to meet a price point and "look" like a high-end scope. Those that are built with few, if any, compromises, are a lot more expensive than the average shooter is willing ot pay. I remember the days when I said "there's no way I'm paying $2,000 for a scope. Today? Not only a $2,000 scope but one that ran $4,000. Neither of those have "tinfoil tubes".

As long as people keep buying poor quality, manufacturers will continue to buy it. That said, not all inexpensive scopes are crap. There are some that are great values. Problem is that finding the good values is like trying to find a "Milk Dud" in a load of Rabbit Crap.