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Ok, I upgraded my FL die. My old Lee was leaving small scratches in my brass, so I bought a set of Hornady match FL and seater dies. I got through about 8 case's and on the 9th the rim ripped of the case. Now I have a case stuck in my new FL die and no idea how to get it out. Any suggestions, ideas or is it now trash?
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Rcbs makes a kit with a drill bit/tap and bushing to fit in the die. Can make same setup yourself to. Drill primer pocket out. Then tap the hole. bushing slides over and screw runs the threads pulling the case out from the die
There are videos on Youtube that show how it is done. They even show you how to make your own stuck case remover kit.
1/4" drive sockets make excellent spacers. A quick drill & tap through the primer pocket and a cap screw gets you reloading again in about 5 minutes. Deep sockets come in handy for pulling the neck back through the expander ball, if necessary.
You can polish your old Lee die using a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop and J&B Bore paste, automotive rubbing compound etc and a drill.
The scratches you are getting are from dirt and grit embedded inside the die and polishing will remove the dirt and grit.
I went to wet tumbling with stainless steel media to scrub my cases before sizing to eliminate scratching my cases.
And as others have stated above stuck case tools can be bought or made to remove stuck cases.
Plus 1Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51
Ok, first because its important, FC brass is soft and more prone to that. It also does not last so I don't use it anymore.
Don't feel bad, I reloaded years back, never a problem including 7mm magnum.
Fast forward 30 years and back at it and pretty close to the first thing I did was rip a case rim off.
I drilled that bugger out, took and hour and a half (I do a lot of that stuff at work)
Then my brother tells me there is a tool by RCBS for that, well dang.
The other thing to remember is its a lube issue. The old roll the shells over the pad made sure you had lube, but they sure were messy.
The spray on stuff is good but its a balance between too much and leave dents and too little and rip the rims off.
Lymnans spray is actually too heavy and I think they say you can cut it with water.
Hornady is my favorite but its thin and I do repeat sprayings. I have had better luck with re-spray rather than spray and let it sit.
I would rather over spray a bit and get a dent sometimes than under and a stuck case.
RC20
I have a scrap brass bucket full of factory loaded once fired Federal .223 cases with over sized primer pockets. And these cases were resized with a small base die and did not get stuck.
Meaning there is a difference between soft brass and not lubing a case properly before sizing and getting a case stuck in a die.
And in actuality a case with soft brass will size much easier the harder Lake City military brass.
Bottom line the OP case got stuck because it was not lubed properly and it doesn't matter who's headstamp is on the brass.
Trust me, I sized a five gallon bucket full of Federal .223 brass without getting any cases stuck. And the problem was how thick the flash hole web is in the base of the case. I sized and prepped the entire five gallon bucket of the Federal .223 cases only to find out that over 25% had over sized primer pockets.
http://i.imgur.com/cYeTsDp.jpg
Below my buddy CatShooter came to the rescue and ended a argument about which brass was harder, Lake City or Lapua.
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ardness-tests/
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/brasstest03.png
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
I too like Hornady Lube, both the One-Shot spray and the Unique "waxy grease" in a tub. The Unique gets used mostly for case forming.
Hornady has a tip that is very useful. In their instructions for a new sizing die they suggest that the user clean it and then give the inside a spray of One-Shot.
If one has cleaned and polished one of their sizing dies it would be a great idea to give it a shot of spray lube or apply some of your favorite "tub/can" lube to the inside of the freshly cleaned die with a q-tip.
As for "dents", they don't last. I just load 'em and use them for fouling shots. No dent when I put them back in the box after firing.
My two favorite case lubes were Hornady Unique and the spray RCBS case slick, but I started making my own alcohol and lanolin spray lube. Both the RCBS and home made spray lubes evaporate leaving a thin coating and cover well. The home made case lube is just as good if not better than any other store bought lube and costs less to make. I spray the cases inside a large zip lock bag and work the cases inside the bag to get a even coating of lube.
Hornady Unique Case Lube
http://www.cabelas.com/product/HORNA...A&gclsrc=aw.ds
RCBS Case Slick Spray Lube - 4 oz. bottle
http://www.cabelas.com/product/RCBS-...g&gclsrc=aw.ds
Thanks for the replies, I managed to get the case out. I put the die in a vice drilled out the primer pocket and used a dent puller to get it out.
I use one shot to lube, that one must not have had enough on it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51
Don't disagree on either point however, I stopped using the lanolin based sprays because of the tacky residue it tended to leave behind. At least the Dillon "Lanolin based" lube did.
I use the Unique One-Shot and RCBS spray case lube almost interchangeably and use the bag method as well but only for my .223/5.56 brass that's going to go through the Dillon 650.
For Bolt action brass that usually only gets a Neck Size, the Unique is my lube of choice.
On the "AR Food" I don't even bother to clean the cases after loading. The F/L die wipes most of the lube off the case and whatever is left is probably only a molecule or two thick. Tens or thousands of rounds through 3 AR's and no broken parts so I guess it works OK.
Lube or oil on the case doubles the bolt thrust and prevents the case from gripping the chamber walls. When the case grips the chamber walls it acts like a shock absorber and the brass must stretch to meet the bolt face. Think about it, when you make a workup load the primers will protrude from the rear of the case until you get over approximately 38,000 cup or 43,000 psi. Meaning a lubed case applies maximum pressure/thrust for a longer dwell time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadshot2
Below from the Lyman reloading manual.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../lyman1a-1.jpg
The Army tells you to not lube your ammo.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dontlube-1.jpg
Below from the HP White testing laboratory.
"1.4 Failure of a gun assembly from internal pressure may be from either
of two (2) failure mechanisms.
1.4.1 The general perception is that those failures are the result
of a single exposure to a CATASTROPHIC PRESSURE level. This
may be an over simplification in that the strength of the
assembly may have been degraded by previous repeated exposures
to excessive, but lesser, levels of pressure whose cumulative
effect is to reduce the ultimate strength of the assembly.
1.4.2 Repeated exposure to pressures which exceed the elastic limit
of a material will continually reduce the ultimate strength of
the material until the ultimate strength is exceeded by a
relatively low pressure level causing fatigue failure."
Below excessive bolt thrust caused the locking lugs to sheer off the AR15 bolt below.
http://i.imgur.com/PijdpgS.jpg
My experience with Hornady dies is that you must keep the vent hole open or cases will stick. Experience is a great teacher.
Handi204
Sorry Big Ed, I've seen your pictures and copies of "articles". I've been at this for a really long time (did you note the "tens of thousands of rounds in my AR's alone"?)
I have seen no signs of "bolt thrust" or failure in all that time. All three of my rifles have their original parts and one of them dates back to the early 80's.
PS: You'll also find thousands of guys like me that do the same with no issues. Now if one was to accidentally load a few rounds with the wrong powder you can see pics like those.
I file articles like those in the same file with all the "never tumble loaded ammo" warnings. I guess when one has been shooting and reloading for over 67 years you know what can, and can't be done.
BTW, unless you wash your cases with Acetone and handle only while wearing cotton gloves there's a high liklihood that there is some lubrication on the cases you fire if only from the oils from your skin (hands),
The British to this day proof test their military small arms with two oiled proof cartridges. The rifle fails proofing if the headspace increases over a given amount due to the increased bolt thrust.
And in the U.S. you can buy the parts to make a AR15 rifle and these rifles are not proof tested as a complete assembly.
All firearm manufactures and the reloading companies tell you to remove all oil and grease from the case, chamber and bore before firing.
And we still have people coming into forums telling people its OK to lube their ammo.
RTFM
http://i.imgur.com/NYjQw8g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NKNfs2n.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l82GT10.jpg
Below is from the 1929 British "Textbook Of Small Arms", the British used the base crusher system of measuring chamber pressure. A hollow copper crusher at the base of the case was used that allowed the firing pin to pass through the copper crusher. The case had to be oiled to measure actual chamber pressure, meaning a dry case delivered far less bolt thrust or force to the bolt lugs.
http://i.imgur.com/W8oz09S.jpg
The above method for civilian firearms proofing was discontinued because if the firearm was sold again it had to be re-proofed and inspected in the U.K. The reason for this was the oiled proof cartridges subjected the rifle to excessive bolt thrust and the firearms were failing headspace testing.
Bottom line, if the firearms industry wanted your ammunition lubed it would come that way from the factory. And the firearms industry in fact tell you to "NOT" lube your ammo.
So ask yourself who has the test equipment to measure chamber pressure and bolt thrust, a faceless screen name in a forum or the firearms industry.
remind me never to shoot with you. You sound dangerously ignorant. lube, water, oil, any noncompressible liquids on loaded round or in your chamber has as much or more potential for a dangerous pressure event than charging with too much powder. It has been proven, documented, and is respected as law for most of us. The explanation is right in front of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadshot2
Over the years I have come across some terms that were the perfect description.
One is called normalizing deviation. That was derived form the first shuttle disaster. You do something that is not supposed to be done, nothing happens. You keep repeating it. At some point something lets go or you push it another step and it lets go (O rings, cold temps, then colder temps and booom)
The other I just came across is a low probability event, but when it occurs, there are extreme consequences.
Snap acting is another term.
Something to keep in mind.
If the effects of bolt thrust had no effect then the headspace on a rifle would never change and become larger.
There are many people in forums telling people its OK to lube their ammo. In another forum the "Super Moderator" was telling the forum it was OK to lube their ammo. I posted what I posted here and the "Super Moderator" banned me from the forum and deleted all my postings. (some people don't like being wrong)
Bottom line, the military tells you not to lube your ammo, the firearms manufactures tells you not to lube your ammo and the reloading industry tells you not to lube your ammo. And we still have individuals in forums that think they know more than anyone else and say its OK to lube your ammo.
I collected old milsurp rifles and had 13 Enfield rifles with replaceable bolt heads. Now ask yourself why the Enfield rifle had bolt heads of various length to keep these rifles in headspace limits. After proof testing with two oiled proof test cartridges if the Enfield rifles headspace increased .003 or more the rifle failed headspace testing due to excessive lug setback. Each No.4 rifle had bolt heads numbered 0 through 3 and each numbered bolt head was .003 longer than the next. These replaceable bolt heads kept the rifle in service longer and compensating for lug setback and wear.
http://i.imgur.com/v1GFvaK.jpg
If you look at a SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawings it lists headspace as minimum and maximum with .010 in between. The GO and NO-GO headspace gauges are used for setting up new rifles or replacing a barrel and the distance between the GO and NO-GO gauges is .003. Now ask yourself what causes the headspace to increase .010 and fail testing with a Field headspace gauge. Now ask yourself why football players are required to wear protective head gear. And anyone who tells you its OK to lube your ammo played too many games without a helmet.
I have never read that you should lube your ammo, but I have read for years not to do it !!!
I use the Lee case lube on all of my rifle cases. Instead of sizing right away, I allow the lube to dry overnight and size the cases dry. Just like the instructions say, once the lube is dry you don't get any dents in the shoulder. I also put just a touch of the lube inside the neck when I lube and the mandrel doesn't stick in the neck. I've never had a stuck case with this process.
I never lube my ammo, the first time I fired my SKS it wouldn't cycle the bolt so I put a couple drops of machine oil on the bolt assembly and it functioned perfectly. Wasn't enough oil to get on the ammo.