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I have been searching the net hoping to find word of a 2 stage trigger for Savage 10 action available or in development for about 18 months now. Nothing.... anyone heard of one in the works?
The RPR has one ALREADY. Adding insult to injury. How can this be? Remington has tons, is it possible as an accutriger replacement?
Dave, I get the feeling that you feel like the two stage trigger is the ultimate. How did you arrive at that conclusion? As for a two stage trigger being developed for the Savage I don't think there is more than a handful of people that have trouble with that. To the best of my knowledge Fred Moreo of SSS has marketed 2 triggers that are complete redesign of the Savage trigger neither one were two stage. Rifle Basics redesigned the trigger mechanism with the Sav2. and did not go to the trouble to make it a two stage.
There have been others Jard to name one, and few if any have included the 2 stage in their concepts. I am not a trigger engineer but one has two ask if the position of the cocking pin and the design of the sear makes a difference. I don't have a clue, however, out of all of my tuning and modifications to factory and aftermarket triggers, none of them have kept me from being competitive against a two stage trigger if there even was one in the same classification.
Take some time and look at what the guys that are having custom rigs built. Who is winning in F/open , F/TR and PRS. Ask the guys on Accurate Shooter or the Hide what the top shooters are using.
Not enough room in the stock for a traditional 2-stage trigger. The pillar is right there. At least that's my understanding.
I like 2-stage triggers too, but it's not the worst thing to have to live with a crisp single stage.
Currently ranked 4th in the South Eastern PRS Club Series. I run a Timney Calvin Elite 2 stage trigger. I love it as I can safely run a lighter trigger pull with confidence. The trigger is a very personal part of the weapon system and the 2 stage setup has made me a more consistent shooter. Not everyone likes it, but I love my 2 stage trigger.
With that said the closest you'll get on the Savage action to a 2 stage is the accu-trigger. Not a bad trigger at all, not a true 2 stage, but basically the same concept.
Awesome Philip!!!! Kicking but and taking names. How many around you use a 2 stage? I can see in your discipline where a two stage lets you settle in. Anyway you have a ARC based tool anyway. You got away from the savage so your options improved and cycling was more precise didn't you?
You are not going to see any, because there is no market for them.
After settling the crosshairs on the bulls eye I push off the safety with my thumb and then
Stage 1, touch the pad of my finger squarely on the trigger.
Stage 2, It goes boom at the first light minuscule movement as I apply pressure.
That's a perfect trigger,
Why the heck would anyone want a trigger with a bunch of creep and a hard spot before it goes boom?
Though LW seems to be a bird of a different feather, it seems completely counterproductive to accuracy. Maybe that's why there is no market for it.
Good luck
Thanks Robin, I did switch to a higher end tool for the type of shooting I do. For this discipline I find it a very solid tool and know quite a few guys going to 2 Stage triggers for the same reasons I have. Until the Timney Calvin Elite series hit the market most did not make use of 2 Stage triggers because of the cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
So in PRS 2 Stage is becoming the favorite of many because of the positional type shooting that makes up the majority of matches.
FTR and Benchrest tend to use a lightweight crisp single stage and for good reason as they are shooting off a solid foundation 100% of the time.
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I have a number of Mil Surplus with the two stage triggers.
I also prefer those.
The Savages I have continue to with the acu trigger which I like a lot. The only thing I would like is to be able to adjust it down a bit more (Varmint type)
At one time I had an AR with RRA Two Stage match chrome plated trigger. Loved it. My brother had a Timney or a Jewel on his and he sold it and bought the RRA.
So add me into the ardent two stagers!
I too would like a 2 stage trigger for my Savage because that is what i a used to using. My Walther KK200 PM match rifle (.22 rimfire) has a 2 stage trigger and I love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by big honkin jeep
My trigger was set up at Camp Perry by a military armorer to go "boom" at a very consistent 2 ounces....is that a "hard spot"? and do you think that is "completely counterproductive to accuracy"? I think not!
If you're shooting off a bench using a rest and bags with the rifle properly positioned and the sights are solidly aligned, an ultra-light, single stage trigger is great. The sights are aligned on the target and the lighter the trigger, the less the pull of the trigger can disturb the position of the rifle and the more accurate the shot.
Many shooters that use single-stage triggers describe it as a surprise when the trigger breaks and that works well off the bench because you don't have to time the shot to when the sights are properly aligned.
If you're shooting from an unsupported position (not off a bench but prone, sitting/kneeling or offhand, with or without a sling, with or without a bipod or rest) the sights are moving across the target and you want to break the shot at the moment when the sights are aligned. This is where a two-stage trigger shines because when the trigger breaks is not a surprise but rather the exact moment that the shooter wants. Except for my two Savages, I have a two-stage trigger in every centerfire rifle I own.
There are different kinds of triggers for different kinds of shooting and if someone made a two-stage trigger for the Savage, I'd buy one for every Savage rifle I owned.
I too like 2 stage, have on my AR's and on Remington 700p. The accu-trigger to me provides some of the same benefits but I would pickup a 2 stage to test if someone came out with one. A older gentleman at a gun show got me interested in 2 stage, as his hands were not as steady as he aged. His experience was the light pressure removed any finger twitch and allowed for a cleaner trigger pull. Xtreme sells the Remington model, wonder if they might do a Savage model.
Huge AR market.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
Huge Mil Surplus market.
As seen a number of responders like them as well.
I would say there are none because no one will make one.
If there is a market for them in other bolt actions and there are, then Savage stands alone as no one wants one? I don't think so.
I would think the sav2 would be the perfect candidate. A few design mods and it could be.
There is no market for them for a Savage rifle, just because a handful would like to have one. When I say "no market", it means not enough interest to make a profit. I know a little about the Savage trigger business.....I've been building them for 20 yrs.Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
Well we have anecdotal evidence that would seem to refute that.
Odd that out of a handful of responses a significant number do like them.
Build it and they will come.
Give me an order for a 1000 units and I'll jump right on it....
I would be interested in a two stage trigger, especially if I could one one for my Model 12 and another one for my Mk II to match.
I am relatively new to target shooting as a hobby, regularly shooting a few times a month as apposed to a few times a year. I became a fan of the two stage once I tried one out in a gas gun about three years ago. I have developed habits around the process of operating a two stage which I have found improved my results. While I do think that the accu trigger is a fine trigger I simply have a preference for the two stage. IMO the non existent of a two stage is the primary reason I would lean toward a 700/700 type action for my next build.
Yes, many of the top shooters (aside from Lone Wolf) are all 1 stage guys, most of which have decades of experience training/competing with that trigger type. But I wonder if that will be the case 5yrs or so from now.
I don't mean to not second guess Sharpshooters expertise on the subject. I am simply an enthusiast and not in the business. I don't know the cost of R&D and the many other factors that contribute to the viability of a product in the gun business. With that being said two stage triggers have exploded on the AR market. The AR is the most popular rifle in America and for many the first rifle they own. As new AR shooters graduate to other shooting disciplines like the popular long range / precision game I think that there could be an opportunity for a Sav 2 stage trigger in marketplace.
Again I am just a guy who likes to shoot and don't claim to be more knowledgeable than an industry veteran and will be the first to admit that I could be way off base.
Even if I am no closer to influencing the industry folks that can make this happen it appears that this thread has gotten the attention of those I had hoped it would....that puts a smile on my face.
Thanks all for your contributions.
Great write up. And the responses on both sides reflect the interesting tension between mfgs and users.
We don't take the chance on a product costs and possible failure.
We might be up to 3 or 4 of SSS order needs! He obviously would not be the one to come out with this, that would be a larger mfg that could address that as it would be a small aspect of the business (Timney comes to mind). Of course good luck in getting their attention.
On the other hand, there is a lot of evidence on the two stage popularity.
I am sort of a bad example for SSS to deal with. While I would like it, I am good enough with the acu trigger (as to how it works) as to not buy an aftermarket regardless. Part of the problem is I would have to buy 3.
I had a couple of gas guns, both got better triggers. One was a mfg upgrade kit (XCR and Robinson Arms) and the other was a custom RRA that I got the chrome plated two stage option when I ordered it. From the XCR I knew what I wanted. The RRA was great.
I have since sold the gas guns as I like target shooting, but I also got more into military guns and now the acu trigger and my like of two stage continues.
I shot my brothers Savage 6.5 Lapua the other day, while its supposed to be a standard acu trigger, it felt more like the target version. Mine are good, his was darn near of not perfect (I wacked out a 1.2 inch 5 shot group with it - keeping in mind that its a good setup with a good barrel, he builds very good ammo - the rear back setup was shaky - but unless you can shoot you still are not going to be able to do that regardless. I had learned a new hand position for a normal stock (I shoot thumb hole in mine) shooting the CZ 22 and used that and it worked nicely.
I am surprised Timeny does not offer that two stage option. They do for other guns.
For those of us who are interested perhaps if would be worthwhile to write Timeny. If we get a couple hundred people to sign/express interest perhaps it will get there attention. I would be happy to draft something up. Any takers?Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
Anyone know if Timeny has an official "industry" forum ? like many companies do on ARF for example?
Furthermore support from folks like lone wolf, who are highly accomplished in the sport would certainly help our cause...
As far as gas gun triggers go I have a LaRue MTB in one of my ARs and a Geissele SSA-E in the other. Bill Geissele would be my pick if I could choose anyone to undertake this project. Unfortunately every product he makes is for the AR so I agree Timeny would be a more likely candidate for this project. Would certainly introduce the idea to Bill though just in case!
I can support it but can't commit to triggers so I may be useless (sometimes my wife is even a bit harsher)