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I have a Savage Target action and am thinking of ordering a .223 barrel for bench work at 100 yards. What contour, make, and barrel length do you all like? Was thinking of trying a Criterion in a 1:12 or 1:14 twist for bullets up to 53 grains or so. What do you all think? 26 inches? Longer? Shorter? I'd be interested in all opinions.
I've never shot in competition, but I've done some of my best 100 yard bench shooting with a 20" straight bull Pac-Nor barrel on an old Savage 112V Series J. Extremely stable and easy to balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster
20 inch was the original AR length so that would be plenty at 100 yds.
Do you want the heaviest steadiest or do you want kind of flexible for non bench.?
A Savage Bull contour would give you the heaviest steadier, and least prone to heat and barrel changes.
Save Varmint (still pretty heavy, maybe 2/3 of the bull weight) is an in-between choice.
Packing it around the Heavy hunter profile.
Heavy, steady sounds good. I won't be carrying it further than to the bench from the trunk of my car. You think 20 inches is enough for full powder burn?
I am guessing that it is, far from an expert, but that's a very small cartridge, not a lot of powder to burn anyway!
I am assuming this is the 223/5.56. My Hornady books breaks it down to 5.56 with up to 80 gr bullets, the 223 Remington (non service rifle) only goes to 60. Not sure why as both are the same and you can of course shoot heavier bullets in the 223, you just need to watch the twist per below.
Twist of 1-12 is probably a the best choice for that bullet weight, that gets dicey as you have some of those twists that do fine and others ?????
Even 1-10 would be not a bad choice. 1-14 is for the much smaller bullets and its more likely to be an issue stabilizing anything heavier than 45 or 50 gr.
This is worth a read as it lays it out pretty well. Being a bit over stabilized (1-12 which is pretty spot on or 1-10) for that bullet weight is better than not enough. 223 is pretty easy on barrels as long as you don't shoot super fast velocity and a heavy barrel to slow heat build up.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/pair...st-rates-ammo/
For the heavier bullets a lot shoot out of the 5.56 aka service rifle, they have gone to 1-9 and 1-8 (with some 1-7 for the real heavy ones and service standard now)
What longer barrel gets you is more velocity (not a lot but more) and of course its heavier. So even 22 or 24 inches gets you a bit more of both and if its only a bench rest, that's plenty good.
20 inches at 100 is fine, if you get or think you want to reach out for varmints out at 200-400 yards then the longer gets you more.
If you think you might go to heavier bullets for longer shooting then the twist sweet spot changes.
Chamber wise you might see if you can get Wylde as it is good for 223 and 5.56 and is accurate for both. Criterions does offer it so that's a vote for them. Not sure on others. Criterions has a good reuputation . Order it from NSS for a hassle free experience.
Probably the toughest selection cartridge wise due to the range of bullets and stability involved.
I have both a 20" bull 1:9 twist and a 26" varmint 1:9 twist and as for accuracy hard to tell them a part.
My concern is your desired twist and bullet choice. If it were me I would go with a 1:8 or 1:7.5 use s heavier bullet 69 gr, through 90gr. will do much better at distance in the wind resulting in better scores. Cost is the same for barrel and a little more for bullets.
When I shoot out mine it will be replaced with a 1:7.5 @ 26" full cylinder ( heavy bull) after all it will only go to the bench.
He is only shooting 100 yards, but your setup offers wider range so decision has to be made.
My take is I would go with the heavier bullet end and twists but if he is never going past 100......
If you don't think bullet weight makes a difference at 100 yards you have never shot one in competition or shot for small groups at that distance.
All I used to use was a 223 in score comps, and have had a 60gr. go into the 6 ring because of wind.
100 yards is pretty small beer...kind of like 50 yards for rimfire. It's a distance where technique starts to show itself a bit. I don't know whether the longer, heavier VLD profile .223 bullets fully stabilize in that short a distance. I have had good luck with flat based Berger (55 grain) and the like. I am not a competitive shooter...more like a newbie who enjoys figuring stuff out. I think 1:12 might actually be ideal. But I also want a stiff barrel. So many of the aftermarket barrels I see seem to default to 26 inches. I am intrigued at the idea of a short, fat barrel, which should have less whip to it.
[Edit] I should also say that wind is pretty mild at my ckub...I don't think I have shot in more than a 10 mph breeze at full value]
Most of the aftermarket go with a long barrel as default
Again check with Jim, I suspect he can get you as short a one as you like. Might be a special order, Shilen took about 3 months for mine (that was a profile not normally offered)
They are easy enough to cut down but then but that's a trip to a gunsmith.
It looks like your pretty well settled on the lighter bullets, so a barrel that is at its best shooting the 50 to 52 grains would be the right choice. I have 26 and 28 inches barrels , and longer shoots faster. There is an optimal bullet spin rate and over spinning is almost as bad as under spinning. Based upon your projected velocity, pick your twist rate that will spin the bullet in it's sweet zone. Hornaday limits spin to 280,000, Sierras to 320,000. Velocity times 720 divided by twist gives you the spin. For example, 3350 fps X 720 / 9= 268,000 RPM. Go with a 12 twist and rpm drops to 201,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster
Berger bullets has a stability calculator you can check out to see if your spin is fast enough. http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
Your barrel supplier should be able to tell you what works best for what your trying to do.
One of the precision shooters here may be able to give some idea of best spin speed for 100 yds work with the best 50 and 52 grain bullets you may be shooting.
I used to shoot matches in the Service Rifle Class to 600 yds with a 20 in. barrel. It was a 1x8 that would have no prob burning all the Varget I could stuff in a case.... 20 inches "worked". It had to as I was bound by rules to stay within "Service Rifle" parameters. Older guys with failing eyes could shoot the same matches under Match Rifle Class. They used "Space Guns".. or AR's with uppers built with 24, 26 or longer barrels and looking at their results got me interested in longer barrels.
Now I shoot a savage model 12 single shot and after burning out the original 1x9 26 inch heavy varminter barrel I replaced it with a McGowens equivalent . I stayed with the 1x9 to keep shooting my beloved {and stock piled} Sierra 69s but have found that my 100 yd go to bullet is the Sierra 53 FB Match. At 100 yds that 53 flat base bullet is a lights out shooter so you'd have a hard time talking me out of my 26 inch barrel. I'll have to try out some lighter bullets some time though I'm not sure why. Even back in the day the 53s worked just fine in a 20 in 1x8 barrel out to 200 yds
For 100 yd bench rest the 6 PPC rules. Why not get.the best.
http://www.6mmbr.com/6PPC.html
. . . 'cause .22 caliber bullets are cheap, the case capacity is small (cheap to fill), the caliber works well with older (cheap) powders, and there is readily available (free, cheap) brass. Barrel life is approximately forever with moderate twist rates and loads, perfect for a cheapskate like me, and you can coast along in the smooth wake of all the AR loaders, military contracts, etc., which keep component availability high and the cost of components low. I think that's it. ;)
Acording to my applied ballistics app a 10mph full value wind will move my 69gr bthp load 1.14" at 100. I try to wait it out so I can't confirm that but it seems to jive with the results at 3-5mph.
I don't have data on the lighter bullets with lower bc but I'm betting it's a noticeable difference.
That doesn't sound like much but a half inch wrecks a bug hole group.
53gr vmax is the lightest I go in my 1in9s it's not as accurate or predictable as the 69gr for me but I needed something that would expand for critters.
We all have our reasons for not shooting 6BR, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 Lapua, 30BR.Quote:
Originally Posted by m12lrs
I shoot 30-06 Target at 100 yds. Because I like the caliber!
Never going to be Dale Tubbs, but I can have fun, works in with my mil surplus and love of the best cartridge ever created.
My next build is probably going to be a 7.5 Swiss. Why? Because it appeals to me and works in with the 30 caliber (it will be a 7.5 Swiss in a true 30 caliber chamber, should be a great shooter!)