cost effective neck turning?

I'm having my barrel re-chambered. I ordered all new brass to start over with, dedicated to this chamber.
I'm hoping to up my game somewhat, so I'm considering outside neck turning.
My question is, would I see enough difference at 500 yds. to warrant the expense and effort?
I currently de-burr flash holes, FL size with .002" bump, trim, chamfer, de-burr mouth and clean primer pockets.

new chamber is .223 with a slightly longer throat to accommodate 80gr bullets in a Shilen SM 1/7 bull barrel.
Brass will be Winchester ( I know, but can't afford the good stuff)

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Originally Posted by Texas Solo

...... snip................ can't afford the good stuff)

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Well, the sad truth is that precision is expensive. Furthermore, there is no cheap way to neck turn. It requires more precision and is more difficult to do than a procedure like deburring flash holes. So you can't easily trade your time against the cost of the equipment. In other words, the minimum cost of any neck turning equipment, even the hand held versions, is substantial. In addition, you really don't "need" the procedure unless you have a non-standard chamber.

In addition, the real truth about how much precision you're gonna' gain by neck turning for a standard chamber is going to be near impossible to answer. In theory all the tiny procedures most of us reloaders use in a reloading cycle help a tiny bit and they all add up, but isolating the improvement associated with one procedure is nearly impossible for even the most careful tester. I uniform my primer pockets, but I can't prove it helps even though I believe it does. You get the point.

I would say rather than buy a neck turning device, spend more money on Lapua brass and consider building a "Skip Design" style DIY annealing machine (cost around a hundred bucks). It should give a tiny improvement in precision and if nothing else, your brass will last a long time.

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Originally Posted by Mozella

Well, the sad truth is that precision is expensive. Furthermore, there is no cheap way to neck turn. It requires more precision and is more difficult to do than a procedure like deburring flash holes. So you can't easily trade your time against the cost of the equipment. In other words, the minimum cost of any neck turning equipment, even the hand held versions, is substantial. In addition, you really don't "need" the procedure unless you have a non-standard chamber.

In addition, the real truth about how much precision you're gonna' gain by neck turning for a standard chamber is going to be near impossible to answer. In theory all the tiny procedures most of use in a reloading cycle help a tiny bit and they all add up, but isolating the improvement associated with one procedure is nearly impossible for even the most careful tester. I uniform my primer pockets, but I can't prove it helps even though I believe it does. You get the point.

I would say rather than buy a neck turning device, spend more money on Lapua brass and consider building a "Skip Design" style DIY annealing machine (cost around a hundred bucks). It should give a tiny improvement in precision and if nothing else, your brass will last a long time.

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If you want to up your game then I would rechamber in a 6BR no neck turn. Even the competition guys have quit neck turning.

Like has already been said. Buy lapua brass. Use CCI BR4 primers. Starting load 30gr varget. Berger 105 hybrid in the lands about 001.

Yep yep and anneal often.

Take the time to read the article on (Ken Brucklacher 1000 yd score record).
Set at the Original 1000 yd benchrest club Williamsport PA. in 2009.
Read the article written on Accurate Shooter.Com.
Checkout how he prepared his cases for a new world record.
There is also a new member on this site, who is the only man (ever) to have won the year end aggregate award at Williamsport 2 times.
That award is given to the person having the best average group size for all the matches for the entire season.
He used a lefty Savage action by the way, and also never annealed a case in his entire life.
But I'm sure if these guys had access to the internet, their methods might have varied? lol

My BIL has been shooting one ragged hole with his 6BR(no turn) for years. His best group for 5 shots @ 100yds is .039".

But, lately, He has gotten into 1,000yd competition. Along with that, He is now neck turning, annealing, and everything else imaginable that goes along with reloading. He recently shot a 1.9" group in a 600yd competition, came in 2nd.

Oh...for the long range shooting, He has moved up to the 6Dasher.

Edit: He has attended the "Williamsport 1,000yd Clinic" twice, where He picked up a lot of His recent ideas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mozella

In theory all the tiny procedures most of use in a reloading cycle help a tiny bit and they all add up, but isolating the improvement associated with one procedure is nearly impossible for even the most careful tester.

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This makes sense. Just can't afford the LaPua brass (medical bills are cramping my style) I never really felt I was losing much by not neck turning, but was wondering if anyone would say it's the best thing since sliced bread. Gunsmith affirmed that my chamber had been miss cut and was junk. Bore is perfect. Just fixing that issue, I'll be able to make ammo that will shoot better.
Thanks for the replies.

As has been stated, really just depends upon what you have, are capable of, and expect.

I shoot to a mile with a 308 and Creedmoor, small bullseye targets and 55-gal drum lids. Can I get tighter groups if I wasn't running "regular" chambers? Probably. But for me out having a good time with fellow shooters, it isn't worth it to me. I can reliably(assuming no Columbia Basin "breeze") get 4-5 out of 10 on the target. That is huge cool factor in my book, and with stock reamers.
I'm more in the camp that a shooters biggest liability is himself, not the equipment. So unless something is REALLY out of sorts, when something goes awry, I don't look to failings of the machine; just the bozo who has his booger-hook on the bang-switch. :eyebrows:

If you wanted "No doubt", then you should fool with the neck and turning; But won't be as cheap. I also don't think that Lapua results, at least for what I expect, are worth the cost. I have always run mixed brass, No sorting, seperating, or horsing around with brass. Doesn't mean you shouldn't, just that it isn't required.

First thing you should do is measure the neck thickness in 3 spots on 10 random pieces of brass. If they are all close, within .001, there really isn't much to gain from neck turning for a standard chamber. If they are all over the place it may be worth the money.

As said above, neck turning alone isn't going to get 1 hole groups. It may not provide you any discernible difference, but it is another step you take to make more consistent ammo.

You can 'afford' everything else but you cannot afford the one component that makes the biggest impact...quality brass? I don't get that.

Right now, Brownells has 223 Lapua brass on sale for $49.99/100. What you would spend on a decent set-up to neck turn would buy you 200-300 brass.

:thumb::thumb:

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Originally Posted by Phranque

Right now, Brownells has 223 Lapua brass on sale for $49.99/100. What you would spend on a decent set-up to neck turn would buy you 200-300 brass.

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I agree!

And with 8 to 10 reloads it's about the cost of a quality primer

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Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

You can 'afford' everything else but you cannot afford the one component that makes the biggest impact...quality brass? I don't get that.

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Well then, let me explain it too you:
Been loading for 40 years. The "everything else", equipment wise, has long been paid for.
Had you read my post, you would have seen that I'm strapped with medical bills.
Had a triple bypass April of 2015. Spent 10 days in intensive care. Ran up a bill over $200,000, of which my insurance only paid 60%.
Do the math...I owe $80,000. I have to make huge monthly payments.

The question was how much effect neck turning may have. The correct answer was "all the tiny procedures most of us reloaders use in a reloading cycle help a tiny bit and they all add up"

Anything else you care to know about my personal finances?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Texas Solo

Well then, let me explain it too you:
Been loading for 40 years. The "everything else", equipment wise, has long been paid for.
Had you read my post, you would have seen that I'm strapped with medical bills.
Had a triple bypass April of 2015. Spent 10 days in intensive care. Ran up a bill over $200,000, of which my insurance only paid 60%.
Do the math...I owe $80,000. I have to make huge monthly payments.

The question was how much effect neck turning may have. The correct answer was "all the tiny procedures most of us reloaders use in a reloading cycle help a tiny bit and they all add up"

Anything else you care to know about my personal finances?

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Sorry about your issues. I think we all have issues of one type or another, however, If you want, I'll send you 100 rounds of Lapua or Norma brass. Consider it a gift that works. Just shoot me a pm and I'll get a box off to you.

I did read you post btw and nowhere does it state what your issue was, just you.....

"..............I'm having my barrel re-chambered. I ordered all new brass to start over with, dedicated to this chamber.
I'm hoping to up my game somewhat, so I'm considering outside neck turning.
My question is, would I see enough difference at 500 yds. to warrant the expense and effort?
I currently de-burr flash holes, FL size with .002" bump, trim, chamfer, de-burr mouth and clean primer pockets.

new chamber is .223 with a slightly longer throat to accommodate 80gr bullets in a Shilen SM 1/7 bull barrel.
Brass will be Winchester ( I know, but can't afford the good stuff)..................."

I don't see any explaination about health or medical bills and really, none is needed or warranted....

^^^^be nice. We can all offer our best advice and opinions without insulting or belittling anyone on here. Sometimes I have been known to waste money trying to save money, but don't ever need to be publicly ridiculed for it.

Maybe I am outta line, here. If so, my apologies.

SidecarFlip, thank you for the offer, but I'll just work with the 500 Win I just received. It is what it is.

BTW...my second post in this thread says...

This makes sense. Just can't afford the LaPua brass (medical bills are cramping my style) I never really felt I was losing much by not neck turning, but was wondering if anyone would say it's the best thing since sliced bread. Gunsmith affirmed that my chamber had been miss cut and was junk. Bore is perfect. Just fixing that issue, I'll be able to make ammo that will shoot better.
Thanks for the replies.

Sorry if I was a bit defensive.

Not really, but I don't often extend an offer to buy a total stranger a 100 box of quality brass either.......and send it gratis Somehow, I don't think that 40 bucks will bankrupt me..or him for that matter.

I stand corrected then. Being 67, I don't always see everything. Besides, I'm missing some parts myself. Lucky for me I had excellent hospitalization at the time. Now, Medicare I don't know about............

The Lapua brass offer stands if you want it. I happen to have Federal match brass right here as well.

Send me an address and I will give you a box to try out. I gave my .brother in law my 223. was going.through my brass stock and found a box. I have no use for it.

Depends. I do it on my lathe, with no cost at all except for 20 minutes making a mandrel. If you don't have a lathe.......I dunno. I only do it when necking down.