shooting bad with .308 with 175 SMK

Gun:10FP Stock: Choate tactical Scope: 10x SS Load: .308 win 175gr SMK 49gr H414 05 PMJ brass CCI200 Primers



Was shooting at a range in Kansas today and couldn't seem to do any good... Temperature was around 94F it was kind of humid and only a light wind.

Any Ideas why this wouldn't shoot good? I wasn't even getting 1MOA

Thanks,

Frank

P.S.

I am trying to find a real accurate load for this gun using the 175 SMK's. Suggested / pet loads welcome! (hoping for something that is moving pretty good / on the fast side, although accuracy is my biggest goal)

44 grains of varget with a GMM primer, and Winchester brass equals half MOA in my 24 inch 10fp.

yeah, I think I may have to try to find some varget.... everyone seems to be sold out of it though. When I have used it in the past I've always had good results.... On the other hand, I've yet to get any impressive results from h414...

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Originally Posted by danw791

44 grains of varget with a GMM primer, and Winchester brass equals half MOA in my 24 inch 10fp.

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yep but I use Lapua brass with 43 grain and achieve 1/2 moa as well.

Was this a load that shot well for you before, or was this a new load for this rifle?

Around 42 grains of RL15 will work well with the 175 SMK in my F/tr. Like 5 in almost one hole.

It was a new load.

I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone using H414 in a .308 w/ a S175MK, successfully or otherwise, before this.

Varget or RE-15 are pretty much the defacto standard. N140/N150, H or I4895 are a few others commonly associated with the .308 Win.

My RE-15 load is a bit warmer than the one previously mentioned... 43.8gr in a Winchester case will shoot just disgustingly little groups out of most half-decent .308 rifles. It's pretty close to the load used in M118LR ammo, IIRC.

H414 has always given me hunting level accuracy in my .30-06 and no better. Reloder powders are excellent and I've gotten great accuracy with every flavor I've used.

I have had success with both Varget and IMR 4064 with SMK 168 and SMK 175.

Sounds like I really will have to try some RL15.

Thanks for all the reply's.

The reason I was using H414 was that I was told it was very close to varget..... So far I've not gotten it to shoot real well with any of my loads. Unfortunately I still have like 6LBS of it.

Time to find a friend who uses it or save it for another cartridge down the road. Properly stored, it shouldn't go bad for years and years.

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The reason I was using H414 was that I was told it was very close to varget...

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Are you familiar with powder burn rate charts? If not, I might suggest doing so.

http://hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

They are an approximation, as lot to lot variances between powder A and powder B might cause powders adjacent to each other on the charts to temporarily swap places, but as far apart as Varget & H414 are... they are most definitely not 'very close'. If anything, H414 is closer to H4350 - more commonly used in cartridges like the .243, .270, & .30-06

Has anyone here had good results with Ramshot powders? Like TAC or Big Game in their .308?

I ask because I'm kind of having a hard time finding either Varget (almost impossible) or RL15 (places only have 1lbs for around $26+ !).

Ramshot TAC works well in some guns; it's generally cheap and available and meters like sugar (i.e. no need to weigh charges at all after setting your powder measure). It can be somewhat temperature sensitive, but other than that it works okay.

IMR4064 is another powder that works very well in the .308 Win... actually that was Varget's claim to fame: it was almost exactly the same burn rate as 4064, but it metered better through a powder measure (i.e. +/- 0.2-0.3gr instead of +/- 0.5gr) and is much more temperature stable. Before Varget, 4895 and 4064 ruled the .308 world. 4064 still shoots outstandingly well, and since Varget still needs to be weighed for optimal use at distance, you're not giving up a lot on the metering aspect. Keep an eye on the temperatures and you should be fine.

With 168 grain Hornady bullets I have found imr 3031 to be most accurate in my Savage 12 308.
39.1 grains shoots 10 shots into one hole at 100 it is a mild recoil load about 2550 fps.

I have used a lot of Ramshot TAC in my 308 with 110,155,168 and 175 bullets. Also ran Varget,4064,WC846 and all group about the same with a little load work.

Also make sure your rings and bases are tight and anything else that could come into play.

Chased that problem before only to find the reticle shifting.

In a Rem 700 (sorry, my Savage is 22-250) I used Winchester brass, Fed 210, Sierra 175's and 34 grains of BLC-2 yielded 1/2" groups @ 100 yards in moderate weather.

You didn't happen to be shooting at Parma Woods did you? Sometime around 3 or a little after? I was there shooting the .223 and .308 and noticed someone there with a Savage 10fp with the Choate Tactical stock, with a SS scope. Girlfriend there with you maybe? Anyway there is a place up in the St. Joseph area that has Varget or did the last time I was in there. Good prices too.

Since you've got 6 lbs of H414 I'd suggest using a magnum primer like a CCI-250 or Federal 215. I've got a pound of H414 I've been planning to try in my 10FLP but I haven't found time yet. If you decide to give magnum primers a try please post your results (good or bad), and don't forget work up from a lower charge.

H414 has never been a round of any great precision for me. My custom 308 doesn't like any kind of primer brass or bullet with H414. I would see if you could find someone who could swap some powder out for you.

Yeah, that was me at Parma woods with my sister-in-law.

She had just bought her first hand gun and that was the first time she ever shot it. Pretty much the first time she ever shot...

Oh, and just FYI I am just visiting Kansas (for now); I live in Michigan

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Originally Posted by 725franky

Has anyone here had good results with Ramshot powders? Like TAC or Big Game in their .308?

I ask because I'm kind of having a hard time finding either Varget (almost impossible) or RL15 (places only have 1lbs for around $26+ !).

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I went to Ramshot for all my calibers. I currently use TAC in my 308 Win and I have used Hunter in it as well. Black Hills Ammo uses TAC in thier .223 and .308 loads.

So how did the TAC & Hunter shoot for you in your .308? I'm really thinking of starting to use Ramshot powder for my .308 since it seems to be pretty readily available and I've been hearing good things about it.

It has worked well for me. WIth Hunter I worked up loads that were true .5" with a few that got into the .3's. I never really got around to making an ultra accurate load in it with TAC. I loaded a bunch up for a range day and they shot under 1", right at .75" so I left it alone since it was minute of clay pigeon at 300 yrds. I did work up loads in my daughters Rock River (.223 ) and easily shot a 1" ten shot group. She doesn't care as long as it is minute of steel plate at 300 yards. My .243 pistol built off a Target action loves Hunter with 105 A maxes. Honest .2"-.3" unless I goof them up. My daughter shot a 1 1/8" 5 shot group with a 22-243 Middlestead I built using Hunter. It was the first day she ever shot a center fire rifle. While it may not be the most accurate for an individual gun but I haven't felt like they ever hindered me in the accuracy department.

I am using 165 and 168 grn bullets in the 308, your rifle may not like the 175's with any powder so throw a couple 168's through it as well.

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Originally Posted by pbcaster45

Since you've got 6 lbs of H414 I'd suggest using a magnum primer like a CCI-250 or Federal 215. I've got a pound of H414 I've been planning to try in my 10FLP but I haven't found time yet. If you decide to give magnum primers a try please post your results (good or bad), and don't forget work up from a lower charge.

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I've used the Federal magnum primer with H414 while working up loads for my .30-06. I had to significantly lower the loads, far more than I had expected. I'd start a full grain below the minimum load--at most. Using magnum primers had no noticeable effect on the accuracy, which was about 2 or 3 MOA.

My 308FCP loves 43.5grns varget, CCI and 175SMK's

The above is my favorite load, I have no pictures, but the below pictures speaks for itself!

[img width=600 height=450]http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/Dennis4437/175Bergers426VargetCCI.jpg[/img]

H414 is nothing more the Winchester 760 powder re-labled as H414 by Hodgdons and 760-H414 require magnum rifle primers. You are not getting good ignition and most likely a bad pressure curve.

RL-15 is now loaded in the military special long range ammunition and is also a double base powder.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...edp51/m118.jpg

Prior to this the Special Long rang ammunition was loaded with WC750 which was a special blend of Winchester 748 ball powder.

Varget and RL15 would be top choices for single and double base powders.

Note: Over half of Remington Dupont IMR powders are made in Australia by ADI

[img width=600 height=434]http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/ADIpowder.jpg[/img]

Savage 10FCP 308 42 grains RE-15 210M Primer with 175 SMK

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Originally Posted by EMgun08

In a Rem 700 (sorry, my Savage is 22-250) I used Winchester brass, Fed 210, Sierra 175's and 34 grains of BLC-2 yielded 1/2" groups @ 100 yards in moderate weather.

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Is that a typo or are you really using 34 grains of BLC-2 behind a 175 mk? Hodgdon says the min. load is 43 grains.