Help The New Guy Pick an Optic?

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07-19-2016, 08:43 PM
Justin.D

Help The New Guy Pick an Optic?

How’s it going all,

I just picked up a 10 FCP-SR in .308 for my first center-fire rifle and my second firearm purchase to my 10/22. I am 19 years old and am the first firearm owner in my family and love getting out and shooting. I'm on a decent budget because I am a Mechanical Engineering student at SDSU, but I try not to let that stop me from getting out and doing what I enjoy when I can find the time. Besides firearms I enjoy fabrication, circle track and offroad racing, and jetskis/boats. I picked up my bolt gun with the desire to try to ring steel as far as my capabilities will allow me, hopefully 600-800 yards with time and maybe the revered 1000 yard distance with even more time and practice, as well as a little luck. Thanks to this website Ive already learned a lot and hope to get some feedback from you all.

Obviously shooting at this distance will require a good optic, and I’m guessing even though the cheap UTG 4x16x44 scope I have now has served me well, I should be looking at something a little higher quality for the job.
For this optic I’m looking to spend somewhere in the sub $500 range unless that is really going to hold me back from something that’s great and a little bit more. I would like to be somewhere in the 16-24 power range. Obviously as a college student it takes a while for me to save money after bills so budget is something I have to keep in mind, however If I’m spending money I definitely want it to be a upgrade from what I have.
So far the choices I have considered are,

Vortex Crossfire II 6-24x50 SFP $200 on sale at midway.

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/819...FY17fgod4Q0N4w
I’m guessing this optic will lack clarity compared to some of the 400-500 dollar options with the same or smaller magnification ranges, but I would like to throw it in to ask if any of you have any experience with this model and or can compare it to some of my other options, in clarity and etc.

Vortex Viper 6.5x20x50 SFP about $420 with discounts

http://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-r...PR-M-06MD-KIT1
This is probably my first choice as of now, but I’m curious how it compares to other scopes in the price range as well as what I’m missing out on comparing it to say the Viper PST or HS-T. Less magnification compared to my other considerations but I’m guessing the glass quality should be the highest? Curious of any experience with this one and comparisons to other known options on the market.

Primary Arms 6-24X50 Front Focal Plane $450 (not yet released)

http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-a...-acss-hud-308/
This one is a wildcard. I know you guys really like Primary Arms and FFP but I don’t have experience with either. I get the advantage of FFP because of range estimation on any power, as well as the proper subtensions and lack of worry of POI shift with magnification change but I worry about the crosshairs covering too much of the target at max magnification and wonder if there is really a benefit to FFP for me? Also curious of glass clarity compared to say the Viper.

These are the options I’ve considered so far, I’m definitely open to additional considerations and input on anything I have here, including my goals.

Sorry for the long winded post, wanted to cover all the bases. Thank you for your time,

Justin
07-19-2016, 09:27 PM
RkzShockwave

When I first dove into long range with an axis in .308, I searched for months for decent glass that wouldn't bleed me. I fell into the same <$500 range. I ended up with this:
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactic....e-P53712.aspx

Never heard of them, but the reviews (independent) were outstanding. I'm very pleased.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
07-19-2016, 09:28 PM
RkzShockwave

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...b4e7024c48.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...8bba08e4c3.jpg

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07-19-2016, 09:47 PM
Justin.D

I know people love that brand, I just used a very expensive fixed power optic before and although the clarity and light capture was amazing I struggled with the lack of adjustability, it was hard to get on target and then the magnification wasnt all that exciting when I was on target. Thank you very much for your feedback ill do some more research on them.
07-19-2016, 11:59 PM
Robinhood

Look for a used optic of known quality on the forums
07-20-2016, 12:34 AM
Justin.D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood

Look for a used optic of known quality on the forums

I have zero issue going used, but what products would you recommend?

Some additional considerations

ARGOS BTR 6-24x50 FFP $370

http://usaoptics.net/214060.html

Seems cheap for what your getting, but people are raving about them

ARGOS BTR 8-34x56 FFP

http://usaoptics.net/214065.html

I would actually be down to suffer the weight to run something with this level of magnification, but the price point concerns me (seems to good to be true).
07-20-2016, 05:23 AM
DrThunder88

I don't know why PA decided to release that new 6-24 FFP with the HUD reticle. I have the Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50mm with the Christmas tree reticle similar to PA's R-Grid, which seems like a much better choice.

Incidentally the Athlon is looking like a pretty decent scope. I haven't wrung it out yet, but the tracking seems decent.
07-20-2016, 06:15 AM
Justin.D

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrThunder88

I don't know why PA decided to release that new 6-24 FFP with the HUD reticle. I have the Athlon Argos BTR 6-24x50mm with the Christmas tree reticle similar to PA's R-Grid, which seems like a much better choice.

Incidentally the Athlon is looking like a pretty decent scope. I haven't wrung it out yet, but the tracking seems decent.

Thats what it seems, Ive been reading very heavily and so far its nothing but good things to say about these scopes, I'm probably going to pick up the big brother to yours in 8x34x56 because its only 2 ounces and 20 dollars more. If it pans out thats a ton of scope for the money, I will say I have my doubts. Anyone else with input or other options feel free to weigh in.
07-20-2016, 12:20 PM
darkker

Justin,

I have another choice for you. I'm a BIG fan of the Primary Arms, but didn't start out as such. The scopes I have are the 4-14 FFP Mil/Mil.
Here is food for thought, given what you want to do; and I didn't look into the others, so don't take this as any specific comment.

DO NOT mix turrets and reticles. If the reticle in the scope is a Mil-dot, the turrets better me in mils. Mixing the two systems is unforgivably stupid, unless you like packing around a calculator, magic conversion wheel, etc.
I'm also not a fan of SFP(second focal plane) scopes. With a SFP the turrets only match the reticle at one magnification, and that is typically max power.

I've done some reviews here, but most are on another board; on the PA. The scopes I have are only @ $230. They are standard mil-dots, and aren't as "busy" as the HUD reticle, but that's preference. They also have more adjustment than the newest(upcomming) PA scope. It *MAY* allow you to get to 1,000 without using a canted base. It is MUCH better glass/coatings than the $750 SWFA 3-15.

I started out testing the PA as a way to break and review "cheap" scopes, only it won't break. It has been strapped to a 4-wheeler and tumbled down some hills, rattled around the bed of a truck on a few trips to AZ and back. Can't recall how old the first one is, but guessing about 3 years. Tracking is still rock solid and zero never floats.

It isn't a $1,000 scope, but it is better quality than MOST $700-800 scopes.

cheers
07-21-2016, 01:21 AM
Justin.D

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkker

Justin,

I have another choice for you. I'm a BIG fan of the Primary Arms, but didn't start out as such. The scopes I have are the 4-14 FFP Mil/Mil.
Here is food for thought, given what you want to do; and I didn't look into the others, so don't take this as any specific comment.

DO NOT mix turrets and reticles. If the reticle in the scope is a Mil-dot, the turrets better me in mils. Mixing the two systems is unforgivably stupid, unless you like packing around a calculator, magic conversion wheel, etc.
I'm also not a fan of SFP(second focal plane) scopes. With a SFP the turrets only match the reticle at one magnification, and that is typically max power.

I've done some reviews here, but most are on another board; on the PA. The scopes I have are only @ $230. They are standard mil-dots, and aren't as "busy" as the HUD reticle, but that's preference. They also have more magnification than the newest(upcomming) PA scope. It *MAY* allow you to get to 1,000 without using a canted base. It is MUCH better glass/coatings than the $750 SWFA 3-15.

I started out testing the PA as a way to break and review "cheap" scopes, only it won't break. It has been strapped to a 4-wheeler and tumbled down some hills, rattled around the bed of a truck on a few trips to AZ and back. Can't recall how old the first one is, but guessing about 3 years. Tracking is still rock solid and zero never floats.

It isn't a $1,000 scope, but it is better quality than MOST $700-800 scopes.

cheers

Yes, Primary Arms is very popular for the "priced right" decent clarity, nice magnification range FFP glass. It would be a good choice. I think after spending an extensive amount of time researching I'm going to give an Athlon Argos BTR a shot for these same reasons, seems like a very comparable product to the primary arms line up, I'm just enticed by the greater magnification range available. Also I and others are a very big fan of the Christmas tree reticle available in the Argos line up, and it is mil/mil moa/moa which I agree is important. Admittedly it will be some time before I'm making a purchase, so I will keep my options open and do more research. I really appreciate your insight and that is a solid option, at a great value no less.
07-21-2016, 09:41 AM
darkker

Then if more mag is your game, be aware of "value" proceed scopes.
When you get to the 18+ mag range, you better be paying beyond $1,000, and that isn't a guarantee. Value scopes trend to REALLY show their optical weaknesses when going that high.
07-21-2016, 10:30 AM
Mozella

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkker

Then if more mag is your game, be aware of "value" proceed scopes.
When you get to the 18+ mag range, you better be paying beyond $1,000, and that isn't a guarantee. Value scopes trend to REALLY show their optical weaknesses when going that high.

"Really good" is always better than "just OK", no argument there.

However, my Mueller 8-32 x 44 scope priced at about two hundred and fifty bucks is better than you might think. I have it mounted on my .223 fun gun, but if the Sightron III on my .223 F/TR gun ever shoots craps, I'd slap that Mueller on and go to the next match without any worries. If the choice is a $1500 scope or no scope at all because someone only has a few hundred bucks to spend on glass, the Mueller is a reasonable solution. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.
07-21-2016, 11:41 AM
earl39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozella

"Really good" is always better than "just OK", no argument there.

However, my Mueller 8-32 x 44 scope priced at about two hundred and fifty bucks is better than you might think. I have it mounted on my .223 fun gun, but if the Sightron III on my .223 F/TR gun ever shoots craps, I'd slap that Mueller on and go to the next match without any worries. If the choice is a $1500 scope or no scope at all because someone only has a few hundred bucks to spend on glass, the Mueller is a reasonable solution. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

Also the Sightron Sll would be in your price range of under 500 bucks with 6x24's going for around 400. The Sll big sky is more and having both big sky and regular Sll i would go with regular for the difference in cost which saves you about 100-150 bucks. Not sure about the Vortex crossfire II but the crossfire that came out first had lots of problems. the viper and up are decent scopes for the money. As darkker said don't mix retical and adjustments if you plan on using the retical to measure for adjustments. You can go past 18x and have good glass without going over $1000 but you have to shop to find the deals. Sightron Slll 10-50x60 price rounded up to nearest $5 i have found for $970. Everything has limits and not everyone likes the same thing or there would only be one choice. Clarity, eyebox size, consistant adjustment are the top three things to look for and not necessarily in that order. Good luck with whatever you decide on.
07-21-2016, 01:34 PM
Robinhood

A will add another plug for the Sightron but would only vouch for the SII Big Sky or the SIII as their are the only ones I have experience with. An older Nikon Monarch
07-21-2016, 08:04 PM
earl39

Forgot to say what ever you get make sure it has parallax adjustment or it won't be much good to you past a couple hundred yards.
07-22-2016, 06:36 AM
rjtfroggy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mozella

"Really good" is always better than "just OK", no argument there.

However, my Mueller 8-32 x 44 scope priced at about two hundred and fifty bucks is better than you might think. I have it mounted on my .223 fun gun, but if the Sightron III on my .223 F/TR gun ever shoots craps, I'd slap that Mueller on and go to the next match without any worries. If the choice is a $1500 scope or no scope at all because someone only has a few hundred bucks to spend on glass, the Mueller is a reasonable solution. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

+1 I have this one and a 6x25 Mueller and would use either in a pinch for short range BR comp. Both are excellent and both hold zero with no problems, ever.
07-23-2016, 07:11 PM
Justin.D

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl39

Forgot to say what ever you get make sure it has parallax adjustment or it won't be much good to you past a couple hundred yards.

All the options I'm looking at will have adjustable parallax. I'm looking at the sightron line some more.
07-23-2016, 07:16 PM
Justin.D

That Mueller is pretty cheap but a lot of people like it. Pretty comparable to my current scope I would imagine. I have no issues with what I currently have it tracks well, holds zero and is fairly decent glass. I'm just ready to get a little bit more magnification and glass quality. I currently have a 4-16x44 UTG compact, actually a pretty impressive scope. They are designed for spring air guns mainly so they are extremely durable to recoil. I had it on a spring gun for many years than moved it up to my .22, now centerfire. Probably 4000 rounds and never lost zero.
07-23-2016, 10:05 PM
Robinhood

Justin, I am PM'ing you a link that may help you with your endevour.
07-29-2016, 01:40 AM
shooterfpga

I used to be a big fan of swfa and primary arms for budget optics. After fondling the athlon optics earlier this year around shot show time frame i can only recommend athlon and swfa now.

Fyi, there are currently two budget argos btr being ran in prs style matches. One of them is with jade precision.