First 260's Emerge

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06-15-2016, 08:55 PM
Dave Hoback

First 260's Emerge

Spent quite a bit of time on the cases, but it's been a good time. Gives I'm disabled but it's something to do. Started with once fired, Lake City 7.62 w/NATO headstamp. First thing is using the RCBS universal de-capping die. I also used an RCBS primer pocket swaging die to take care of the military crimps, and it worked fantastic. Next was annealing the case necks. Then I full length sized in a Redding 7mm08 die, and full length sized in a Redding 260 Rem. die. I did both these steps WITHOUT the de-capping rod/sizing button installed. Finally I neck sized with a carbide sizing button. (Carbide is the ONLY way to go).

I sorted all the brass. Started with the 2011 dated headstamp first.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...so34j7gtt.jpeg

Came out pretty good.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...sl7jwa3jb.jpeg

Here is my little happy place. And, yup! Besides building the rifle, a 1911 and making knives....I'm doing all of this with my one arm as well.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...svt74tbh0.jpeg

These are basically done for "fire forming". I just don't have a place for actual fire forming, so I just load it up with some 140gn pills to go shoot 'em. I'm just burning through what I have left of H380. Went with 39, & 39.5gns max. I'm more concerned with overall length. The Magpul mag was listed at 2.820" MAX COAL, but I found, not only, 2.826" working fine, but also went up to 2.843". I am close, but still have some room in the magazine.
06-15-2016, 09:03 PM
drybean

Post some pics of your knives , an what you have FS
06-15-2016, 09:41 PM
Robinhood

Did you have to deal with a donut?
06-16-2016, 07:02 PM
Dave Hoback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood

Did you have to deal with a donut?

Ya know, there is a very slight convexed donut(not concave donut, when sometimes seen "necking up" brass, like
as in going from 243 to 260). The donut does not interfere with chambering in any way, and should be ironed out after the first firing. Not only that, but all of my neck sizes, after bullet seating, were well within SAAMI, most measuring .295". I'm not even bothering neck turning. Some things occurred to me during all of this. And it reminded me of a story I heard where people simply repeat what they hear others say...even with ABSOLUTLY NO experience of it themselves. I read so much about the necks getting thicker when downsizing, thus necessitateing neck turning. I also read this was exacerbated when using military NATO 7.62 brass. But I'm not seeing this in actuality. I believe this to be because the necks don't actually get "thicker". As I see it, rather, as I KNOW IT, when downsizing, the necks are getting longer. So, the necks can't be getting both "longer" & "thicker" at the same time! Where's the extra brass coming from?? If you could keep them from getting longer, the necks would certainly get thicker. But that's just not the case.
06-21-2016, 10:13 AM
FiveInADime

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Ya know, there is a very slight convexed donut(not concave donut, when sometimes seen "necking up" brass, like
as in going from 243 to 260). The donut does not interfere with chambering in any way, and should be ironed out after the first firing. Not only that, but all of my neck sizes, after bullet seating, were well within SAAMI, most measuring .295". I'm not even bothering neck turning. Some things occurred to me during all of this. And it reminded me of a story I heard where people simply repeat what they hear others say...even with ABSOLUTLY NO experience of it themselves. I read so much about the necks getting thicker when downsizing, thus necessitateing neck turning. I also read this was exacerbated when using military NATO 7.62 brass. But I'm not seeing this in actuality. I believe this to be because the necks don't actually get "thicker". As I see it, rather, as I KNOW IT, when downsizing, the necks are getting longer. So, the necks can't be getting both "longer" & "thicker" at the same time! Where's the extra brass coming from?? If you could keep them from getting longer, the necks would certainly get thicker. But that's just not the case.

This is good news. I have been sitting on 100pcs of Remington .260 brass for a long time and they are about shot out. I'm just going to get some LC and try this out.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
06-21-2016, 11:32 AM
LongRange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Ya know, there is a very slight convexed donut(not concave donut, when sometimes seen "necking up" brass, like
as in going from 243 to 260). The donut does not interfere with chambering in any way, and should be ironed out after the first firing. Not only that, but all of my neck sizes, after bullet seating, were well within SAAMI, most measuring .295". I'm not even bothering neck turning. Some things occurred to me during all of this. And it reminded me of a story I heard where people simply repeat what they hear others say...even with ABSOLUTLY NO experience of it themselves. I read so much about the necks getting thicker when downsizing, thus necessitateing neck turning. I also read this was exacerbated when using military NATO 7.62 brass. But I'm not seeing this in actuality. I believe this to be because the necks don't actually get "thicker". As I see it, rather, as I KNOW IT, when downsizing, the necks are getting longer. So, the necks can't be getting both "longer" & "thicker" at the same time! Where's the extra brass coming from?? If you could keep them from getting longer, the necks would certainly get thicker. But that's just not the case.

when you size a 308 case down to 264 your pushing brass down into the neck shoulder junction and thats where the doughnut is/starts...if you have a .297-.299 neck in you chamber your most likely going to end up with doughnuts if your using bushings to size your necks...bushing do not fully size the necks so it makes it even worse...and doughnuts dont iron out when fired...you say you already have a slight doughnut but it dont interfer? the only way they dont interfere is if the base of your bullet is seated above the neck/shoulder junction.

i used bushing dies for a few years and this is the reason i quit using them...if your sizing your necks more than .003 .004 from fired to ready to load then your most likely going to have doughnuts and they may only be slight but they will be there and cause inconsistent seating and high ESs.
06-21-2016, 06:56 PM
Robinhood

Quote:

And it reminded me of a story I heard where people simply repeat what they hear others say...even with ABSOLUTLY NO experience of it themselves. I read so much about the necks getting thicker when downsizing, thus necessitateing neck turning. I also read this was exacerbated when using military NATO 7.62 brass.

OK

Quote:

when you size a 308 case down to 264 your pushing brass down into the neck shoulder junction and thats where the doughnut is/starts...if you have a .297-.299 neck in you chamber your most likely going to end up with doughnuts if your using bushings to size your necks...bushing do not fully size the necks so it makes it even worse...and doughnuts dont iron out when fired...you say you already have a slight doughnut but it dont interfer? the only way they dont interfere is if the base of your bullet is seated above the neck/shoulder junction.

i used bushing dies for a few years and this is the reason i quit using them...if your sizing your necks more than .003 .004 from fired to ready to load then your most likely going to have doughnuts and they may only be slight but they will be there and cause inconsistent seating and high ESs.

LR, you must be one of those with absolutely NO EXPERIENCE.:cool:
06-21-2016, 09:56 PM
LongRange

lol...yep...but I'm learning.
06-26-2016, 10:02 PM
eddiesindian

A lot of work but well worth the time and effort.
06-27-2016, 03:38 PM
Dave Hoback

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRange

when you size a 308 case down to 264 your pushing brass down into the neck shoulder junction and thats where the doughnut is/starts...if you have a .297-.299 neck in you chamber your most likely going to end up with doughnuts if your using bushings to size your necks...bushing do not fully size the necks so it makes it even worse...and doughnuts dont iron out when fired...you say you already have a slight doughnut but it dont interfer? the only way they dont interfere is if the base of your bullet is seated above the neck/shoulder junction.

i used bushing dies for a few years and this is the reason i quit using them...if your sizing your necks more than .003 .004 from fired to ready to load then your most likely going to have doughnuts and they may only be slight but they will be there and cause inconsistent seating and high ESs.

Yeah, I don't use bushing dies...Thanks chief! Your unclear on my meaning of "not interfering". I was simply referring to actually chambering them. I am aware that accuracy will be dramatically influenced. You skipped the part where I explained that this is how I am fire forming....as I cant just load up some power pistol/cornmeal/tissue, head outside and "FIRE FORM" away! LOL.. I'm constantly learning, as well. Which is why I would rather have the experience going through all the steps. As I said, I'm ALWAYS LEARNING. Once I have FIRED the newly reformed cases THE FIRST TIME, I will neck size and, as needed, turn the necks. I'm not worried, as these will simply be for my range. Serious shooting will be using NEW Lapua Palma brass.

Thanks for pointing out a few things, so I could clarify. I appreciate it.
06-27-2016, 04:19 PM
LongRange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Then I full length sized in a Redding 7mm08 die, and full length sized in a Redding 260 Rem. die. I did both these steps WITHOUT the de-capping rod/sizing button installed. Finally I neck sized with a carbide sizing button. (Carbide is the ONLY way to go).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Yeah, I don't use bushing dies...Thanks chief! Your unclear on my meaning of "not interfering". I was simply referring to actually chambering them. I am aware that accuracy will be dramatically influenced. You skipped the part where I explained that this is how I am fire forming....as I cant just load up some power pistol/cornmeal/tissue, head outside and "FIRE FORM" away! LOL.. I'm constantly learning, as well. Which is why I would rather have the experience going through all the steps. As I said, I'm ALWAYS LEARNING. Once I have FIRED the newly reformed cases THE FIRST TIME, I will neck size and, as needed, turn the necks. I'm not worried, as these will simply be for my range. Serious shooting will be using NEW Lapua Palma brass.

Thanks for pointing out a few things, so I could clarify. I appreciate it.

well chief read your post...YOU SIZED 308 down to 6.5 in TWO STEPS WITHOUT the expander ball in your die...thats neck sizing!! and since you did it in 2 steps i can pretty much guarantee you have already pushed a lot of brass into the neck/shoulder junction and id bet you already have doughnuts...they may be slight but they are there.
you then did a final size WITH the expander ball and all that did was push the brass back to the outside of the case and now when you shoot that case it blows it back to the inside...you say your going to neck size? is that with a FL sizing die without the expander? if so thats the same thing as using a bushing...youll be turning necks but as you say you are set up and ready for that anyway so no biggy.

how do i know what i know? well chief i can tell you its not something i heard or read on the net...ive shot a few rounds through a 260.
06-27-2016, 05:33 PM
stomp442

Yep long range is absolutely correct on this one. I have made more than my fair share of .260 cases from Lake city match .308 brass and they all needed their little necks turned, even when they measured within saami spec. It will be near impossible to tune a good load without turning the necks for uniformity and getting rid of that donut.
06-29-2016, 11:32 PM
Dave Hoback

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRange

well chief read your post...YOU SIZED 308 down to 6.5 in TWO STEPS WITHOUT the expander ball in your die...thats neck sizing!! and since you did it in 2 steps i can pretty much guarantee you have already pushed a lot of brass into the neck/shoulder junction and id bet you already have doughnuts...they may be slight but they are there.
you then did a final size WITH the expander ball and all that did was push the brass back to the outside of the case and now when you shoot that case it blows it back to the inside...you say your going to neck size? is that with a FL sizing die without the expander? if so thats the same thing as using a bushing...youll be turning necks but as you say you are set up and ready for that anyway so no biggy.

how do i know what i know? well chief i can tell you its not something i heard or read on the net...ive shot a few rounds through a 260.

Ok. I'm not sure why your being hostel. And I'm not sure what your arguing about. I don't use bushing dies. Simple as that! And I wouldn't neck size with a FL sizer die! Isn't that called umm..., Oh Yeah! FULL LENGTH SIZING! I don't remember ever presenting any contestation as to how many rounds you have fired, reloaded whatever. So I'm not sure why that was interjected. I posted pictures. Thought they were self explanatory. There is nothing wrong with reading, and learning things on the web. It's how I self taught myself everything I know about building firearms & general gun smithing, as well as making knives and a host of other things. It's the worlds knowledge at your fingertips. You simply must be able to decipher the good information from the bad information. That's where intelligence and some wit come into play. So if that's your game..... I would take heed. Ok there......

BTW: my name is Dave.. It's right up there at the top. Guys on forums seem to LOVE using handles. Don't you? Sport!

PS, I'm lightening the mood here, and just joking now. I mean... "Why so serious?", after all.
06-29-2016, 11:44 PM
Robinhood

We tard
06-30-2016, 09:23 AM
Dave Hoback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood

We tard

LOL! You are correct! And I sure am, at times.

LongRange, don't be affended, please. I was having a little fun in my response. I hear what you are saying. And I am certain your reloading knowledge exceeds my own. I am new to reloading 260, and have only experience with 223 in past years. I do not reload pistol at all. I wasn't trying to exhibit that these cases did not have a doughnut. I stated they, infact, that they did. I was trying to express the difference between the doughnuts you get from going downsizing & upsizing brass. And yes, I WILL be turning the necks after the first firing. And again, these cases are for my range ammo. They won't even be loaded with premium slugs after this. So, I apologize if I made, or make you angry for some reason. Forgive me.
06-30-2016, 09:28 AM
LongRange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Ok. I'm not sure why your being hostel. And I'm not sure what your arguing about. I don't use bushing dies. Simple as that! And I wouldn't neck size with a FL sizer die! Isn't that called umm..., Oh Yeah! FULL LENGTH SIZING! I don't remember ever presenting any contestation as to how many rounds you have fired, reloaded whatever. So I'm not sure why that was interjected. I posted pictures. Thought they were self explanatory. There is nothing wrong with reading, and learning things on the web. It's how I self taught myself everything I know about building firearms & general gun smithing, as well as making knives and a host of other things. It's the worlds knowledge at your fingertips. You simply must be able to decipher the good information from the bad information. That's where intelligence and some wit come into play. So if that's your game..... I would take heed. Ok there......

BTW: my name is Dave.. It's right up there at the top. Guys on forums seem to LOVE using handles. Don't you? Sport!

PS, I'm lightening the mood here, and just joking now. I mean... "Why so serious?", after all.

nice to meet you Dave...i could go back and forth all day but i just dont have the time right now plus you have already done your due diligence so good luck with this.
06-30-2016, 09:41 AM
LongRange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

LOL! You are correct! And I sure am, at times.

LongRange, don't be affended, please. I was having a little fun in my response. I hear what you are saying. And I am certain your reloading knowledge exceeds my own. I am new to reloading 260, and have only experience with 223 in past years. I do not reload pistol at all. I wasn't trying to exhibit that these cases did not have a doughnut. I stated they, infact, that they did. I was trying to express the difference between the doughnuts you get from going downsizing & upsizing brass. And yes, I WILL be turning the necks after the first firing. And again, these cases are for my range ammo. They won't even be loaded with premium slugs after this. So, I apologize if I made, or make you angry for some reason. Forgive me.

i dont get mad or offended Dave its the internet...i do find you entertaining though but as i said i just dont have the time to engage in witty back and forth with you right now and no need to apologize...you will figure all this out on your own...again good luck with everything.
06-30-2016, 02:53 PM
Dave Hoback

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongRange

i dont get mad or offended Dave its the internet...i do find you entertaining though but as i said i just dont have the time to engage in witty back and forth with you right now and no need to apologize...you will figure all this out on your own...again good luck with everything.

Likewise, umm, well Range.. Or do you prefer Long?? LOL. I'm very entertained. You’re correct. I WILL figure it all out. That's what I do. See, I do more with one hand, than most do with both.... AND a helping hand! Haha.. Like the Savage I recently built. First one I did complete…I looked, I learned & it's done. Was actually a cake walk! So, I am glad you think I'm entertaining. Wow! And that was with, but a simple conversation. You should see me making one of my knife designs; or building a 1911... Now that's a firearm which requires some skill, & a serious level of attention.