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I have a 10T that shoots great (0.5 to 0.7 MOA with handloads), but part of me wants to swap to a Criterion barrel because they are right up the road from my home. Should I expect better groups than the factory barrel, or should I just wait until the current barrel needs to be replaced?
The Criterion will much better that the factory, tuned handloads in the criterion will be in .1-.5 this will give you benchrest accuracy, they are the other half from kregier barrels
The real question is what are you going to be shooting?
Hunting punching paper, your factory barrel will do that just fine. But if your wanting a different round to shoot, Criterion is a great barrel.
But the bottom like is what do you want to do? What is your budget like?
What are your shooting needs.
Respectfully
Mike
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I appreciate your thoughts, Mike. I shoot primarily as a means to tinker with reloading; so my goal is to make really small groups at 200 yards (the max for my club). Where I live in WI I am a stones throw from Criterion, Kreiger, and Bartlien so I feel I should have a nice barrel on my savage!
Are there vendors or companies that this forum recommends for the barrel install? I know I could do it at home but I hate to buy all the tools for something I might do once.
No, not that I can say. All three of them are great barrel makers, I like them as well as X-Caliber I have several of these barrels and they shoot **** good.
As far as installing your barrel on its easy to do it. Equipment is less than hundred bucks.
Respectfully
Mike
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I bought a Criterion match barrel from NSS, and for another $78.00 got the action wrench and barrel nut wrench. That is far less than a Smith will charge to install your barrel, not counting the waiting period, and as 35Whelenshooter says, it's easy to DIY. So save yourself some time and money, get some valuable experience and have the tools in hand for the next time!
IMHO
The internet has turned so many casual shooters into world class bench rest shooters over the last few years that it's getting a bit ridiculous. Expecting to consistently get groups that size just by simply screwing on an aftermarket barrel and tuning some hand loads is a pipe dream for 99% of the shooters out there. Let's be realistic here guys......Quote:
The Criterion will much better that the factory, tuned handloads in the criterion will be in .1-.5
To the OP....You're rifle is shooting very well by all accounts. An aftermarket barrel might help to a certain extent but it probably won't improve on what you've been doing already by very much. But there are other considerations and advantages of semi-custom barrels. Not only might you see slight accuracy gains (I only say slight because you're already shooting quite well) but they will clean up easier, shoot accurately longer between cleanings and help maintain your point of impact when fastened to a properly bedded rifle. All these things add up to a happy shooter but don't get frustrated when you can't shoot 1/10" groups.....because most of us will never shoot more than one or two of those.......ever.
Damon is 100% correct.
If all you want to do is spend between $300 - $500 for a new barrel then go for it, but realistically if you are already shooting good groups play with your loads some more. seating depth will tighten up horizontal and powder charge will help with vertical , but a new barrel may not help with either.
I personally have shot a lot more .5 groups than .1 groups with custom barrels and I shoot on average twice a week off BR set up from concrete benches that are dead level. I have factory barrels that shoot 0.225 - 0.228 every time out but that takes a lot of load work up, I also have some that no matter what 0.750 is as good as it gets on a good day.
With what you have if you were shooting club matches in Factory class you would clean house on most days. My advice shoot what you have until it won't shoot anymore.
I would recommend that you get the tools you need and include head space gauges so that you can do it accurately. I belive once you do it you will be pleased with how easy it is to do and will expand your shooting opportunities. I now have 3 actions and 5 barrels. I am hooked.
Part of the problem with internet accuracy claims is the simplicity of photo editing these days. Here's an example.......
"I took my xxxxxx brand rifle to the range today and it shot lights out!"
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...psikjko4dg.jpg
Of course everyone oh's and ah's over how great that group is and the guy posting the pic becomes a legend because everything he posts is nothing short of astonishing. That one group does not tell the whole story though......the rest of the target looks like this......
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...ps9nxdw1rq.jpg
but when the guy shows the whole target all he gets is advice on how to improve his consistency and accuracy.
We need to keep this is mind fellas when we post pictures of our groups. Heck, I'm guilty of this from time to time too.....but I never make the claim that my rifle will shoot as well as the first picture "all day long". So when we are showing off how great our rifles shoot let's tell the whole story....not just the happy parts.
But sometimes your stock Savage can shoot lights out once you get the hang of it ;) left to right top to bottom I just had to get used to it. I'd say keep your barrel.
http://i.imgur.com/KyrxSCK.jpg
Barrels are the luck of the draw.
Sounds like you got a good factory barrel. I would.keep it
That said a quality aftermarket improves your chances of getting a good one but they have duds too!
Lots of variables in an accurate rifle.define accurate. A sportster rifle probably won't be as consistently accurate as a 30" straight taper bench gun. Same with caliber. Not likely to get an '06 to hang with a 6mm BR.
THEN you throw in the shooter!
Right up the road from the house?...................Man...Id be in deep if I were you. Id probably have a closet full of barrels at the ready to be swapped out.Quote:
Originally Posted by wisluggo
Id buy the barrel of your choice....shoot what you have till its spent and in the mean time get what you need to start swapping barrels (vise,gauges,barrels wrenches etc...)............be fare warned. Its addictive.
If a rifle is printing consistent 1/2moa groups exactly how much money do you want to spend chasing 1/4 inch. You can pile up wads of cash as you chase hundredths of an inch,and for what,bragging rights?
My rifles print 1/2moa and my savage model 11 22/250 rips a ragged hole
so exactly how much better realistically do we want to get and how much are you prepared to spend to get it.
Just sayin
You never did say what caliber you have. Now a new barrel in a new caliber is the way I would go. That is what I like about savage. The ease of changing barrels. Just make sure you get the contour right where it will fit your stock. If you want bugholes get a 6BR. IF you want a fun long range get a 6.5 creedmore. I am sure you will get lots more suggestionsQuote:
Originally Posted by eddiesindian
Take note of the warning above. It is addicting.
Well said. All my Savages have stock barrels. One punches holes in the 3,s and the other 2 consistent 5,s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryfulman
If I and the gun could shoot under 11/16 (grin) MOA or under I would be happy.
5/8 maximum is my benchmark. Wonderful is anything 1/2 MOA or under.
Occasionally you would get a one hole group or with a bit of clover to it.
I would be happy with the OP groups though on a factory barrel.
Don't forget Brux as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by wisluggo
What club are you at? Here at Stoughton we only have 100 yards and I would love to have 200 as an option.
Maybe a WI Savage shoot up in Shiocton where we can stretch out to 500?
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When you guys refer to 2s and 3s is that tentns of an inch (MOA?)
And my folks hau7led me out of Wisconsin some 62 years ago, I may regret it in my old age!
You can't beat AK (peddling into work the Alaska Range was prominent with an inversion, Denali was out) but we don't have no barrel makers up here!
X-Caliber is getting a good reputation (has) and if it come out of Apache/aka Accurate barrels you get Jims work and Dennis herding.
I have an XC on the way and will write that up when I get it. My Savage is now shooting 3/4 to 1/2 which is ok, hoped for better with reloads and either its drifted or I have as early on I was getting more 5/8 to 3/8 with a bias up at 5/8 (one .250 group) but as noted, look at the whole range session.
"Shooting in the 2's" means you are shooting groups at 100 yards that measure .200 - .299 inches from center to center.
same idea for "shooting in the 3's"... .300 to .399 inches.
Thank you
it's been a while since I've shot any groups with my 243. Been mostly milk jugs way down yonder.Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiesindian
But this weekend I figured I'd see how it was printing and decide whether it was cleaning time yet.
Half once group from center to center at 200 meters. Off bags of course.
Dont need to clean anything yet.
Good load development is as important as the rifle. The only thing I did differently with this batch of brass was I seated the projectiles 5 thou off the lands. So just the slightest jump.
It's amazing that we can take a chunk of metal,insert more metal inside with an explosive and with slight changes in variable we can have a load that looks like a birdshot spray pattern or with a bit of adjustment to seating depth these chunks of metal can put bullets into te same hole and start stacking em from behind.
I enjoy reloading almost as much as emptying them.
Today with factory ammo most quality gun builders guarantee moa. It doesn't sound like much but when you consider what it takes for a rifle to print moa,consistently that's really saying something.
Anyways I'll end my novel here.
I thought I was the only one that thought like that! Of course once you get into that 1 MOA thing you are spoiled and want more.
Truly stunning for all the aspects of fit, finish, bullets, powder, primer, brass, barrel (lots of factors there) and you still get that accuracy and that does not count the shooter (who now turns out to be the limiting factor)
Man, lots of good advice here. I say if you enjoy reloading and shooting for small groups go ahead and buy you an aftermarket barrel of your choice. It will most likely shoot better, will certainly be easier to clean and de-copper, and they aren't really that expensive in the grand scheme of things. If it doesn't shoot much better than your factory barrel, just sell it and either go back to factory or start over with another one. They are easy to sell and they make new ones every day! ;)
I added the second barrel to my setup and had the long action sitting there doing nothing while I waited for Shilen.
I got an XC Bull 308 that match e the 12FV.
I am still in load development, its about even with what I was getting out of the Savage barrel. Still some sleuthing to do as the 12FV with the varmint was put in the stock.
Per Damon555, my take is that I am not good enough to shoot as good as the gun(s) can shoot. No regrets on the 2nd barrel, it will go back and forth, I got to use the tools and prove to myself my setup works. I have enjoyed it, good to have a cross check, get a barrel if you want to play with it and have more fun, its not a panacea for the real good shooting skills. I though I was not bad, I need to keep working!
So even a good barrel (or gun/scope/stock) is only as good as the shooter, even if its capable of doing better.