Jumping Into Precision Reloading

I've tried several hundreds of rounds with different combinations of bullets, powders, primers, seating depth, etc... and can only get my 243 Axis to average around 0.55" following the email match rule of three consecutive five shot groups. Out of five groups there is usually only one in the .3's but the next could be close to an inch. I think that is about as good as it's going to get with my current process. Funny thing is, that would have been more than adequate until I joined this forum :)

I decided to invest in some new equipment to, hopefully, make some improvement. Here's what I ordered so far:
Sinclair/Wilson ultimate trimmer kit.
Sinclair digital concentricity gauge.
Insize digital gauge for neck wall measurement.
Lapua brass

The only thing I currently have for neck turning is a Lyman tool that attaches to the universal trimmer. It seems to work OK but would like to get something a bit better. I've read up on several hand-held models that would certainly be up to the task but am leaning toward getting a 21st Century Lathe.

Any suggestions while my wallet's open?
(No, not a new barrel....yet)

Yes but first i have a question. Were you by any chance one of those trying to get Nascar performance out of your Yugo a few years back? lol

Just ignore what it aggs. Say, "it shoots in the 3's all day long if I do my part" :cool:

No Yugo, but I wish I still had my orange and white '72 Gremlin with the top cut off from the front seats back, an empty 2.5 gal. Roundup jug fashioned into a hood scoop and a big #5 on the door. Drove it to high school for a year with no exhaust past the manifold, no reverse and expired temp tags. The police would just shake their heads and laugh.

OK, back on topic. I know that I can spend more money on a better rifle but that's not what is driving me right now. I just got a LRPV in 223 because I wanted a .5" rifle in case an opportunity arose to head West for prairie dogs. Shot under .5" out of the box. Very nice but there was no challenge to it. My quest is to make THIS rifle shoot better. Maybe all of the attention given to loads will show no improvement. Oh well, the new gadgets can be used for other cartridges as too.

Truth be known. I get more satisfaction from shooting a groundhog with a Destroyer Carbine at 100 yards than a 22-250 at 400.

Just this...

http://www.forsterproducts.com/catal...?prodid=700682

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GaryB

Just this...

http://www.forsterproducts.com/catal...?prodid=700682

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Actually, I do suspect that my decades old Rock Chucker may be contributing to run-out. Once the concentricity gauge arrives I will start investigating. If a replacement is in order the I will probably go with the Co-Ax.

Thanks

You say your wallets open? How far do you want to go down the accuracy hole? Its deep....i know ;) ....but be warned it becomes a part time job...ill list my thoughts when you answer.

You have reached the Acme of load developement, and that's all the better it will shoot in a budget gun. Open your wallet a little wider and spring for a good barrel and stock.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

You have reached the Acme of load development, and that's all the better it will shoot in a budget gun. Open your wallet a little wider and spring for a good barrel and stock.

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If Wiley Coyote would have headed this he would be eating Road Runner right now.

The Axis is currently sporting an ER Shaw 24" 1:10 Varmint barrel, Boyds Tacticool and a SAV-1 trigger.

My opinions thus far:

Barrel - Nice finish. Wish it were a faster twist. Picked it up for $180 in a kit from Brownells so, even if it never shoots any better than what it does now, I feel it's a pretty good deal.

Stock - Seems like it is as soft as balsa wood. Have to frequently torque the action screws. Bedding pillars will arrive tomorrow.

Trigger - Cannot get it under 3lb. without risk of slam fire. I never polished the sear. After hours of adjustment, I asked the dealer if he ever encountered this. He said " Yeah, I have mine under 2lb. and it will send one down range once in a while. You just have to be careful". Uhhhh, No thanks!


I received the concentricity gauge today and did a quick check of a few rounds and cases. All have been loaded at least 5x.

Neck
Fired cases .0015 ~ .0025
Sized with Lee collet die .0015

Bullet near case mouth
87 VMAX .0025 ~.0045
These shoot .75" 5 shot groups pretty consistently.

A good press, Wilson dies, well maybe a Wilson seater and a Forester, RCBS, or Redding FL die-they are about the best around. No matter what you use, get your technique down pat because you will have runout with all of the equipment. Sometimes the operator has a lot of input in the outcome of seating a bullet.

Nothing wrong with a Lee trimmer to start with.

All I can state, once addicted, you will buy nothing but the best as reloading is 60% due to the equipment you use, the other is mainly your technique. Trimming the meplat and pointing the bullet, well many state it makes a difference.

POINT: I don't know if you will get the same answer twice, because once people find what works for them and their rifle, they stick with it. Wilson definitely seems to be one of the most popular products. Oh, and I use a Forster neck trimmer. I have a Gracey trimmer for large jobs, it can't be beat IMO.

Order 6 say Brux barrels and have them all chambered.
Keep the good one and sell the rest here on the clasifieds.
Option #2, be happy and go shoot something.

Im sure you,ll eventually get where youde like to be in the accuracy addiction. Looks like your wallets already opened up.
I think your in the right direction.
Precision reloading is so subjective. Opinion/theories/the ying and yang of the process can be over welming.
Good luck

If you are only looking to get your Axis to shoot small groups and not a half dozen other target rifles, start with a quality die set or the Lee collet die set. Purchase Lapua brass get a new or Scott Parker tuned beam scale. Use Berger bullets. Practice with SMK's. Educate yourself on brass prep and neck tension. If you do not see an improvement follow "sharpshooter"'s advice. Know your new barrel's chamber reamers specs and shoot for .003 to .004 diametric clearance on the neck. Turn if needed. Use a quality fire control group tuned to 2lbs or less. Check the bullet run-out between the ogive and the point.


This strategy does not require a tremendous outlay of cash and has proven itself many times over. Your current barrel will need a lot of cleaning and will probably give you accuracy issues in sustained fire like in a f/class match.

what Robinhood and Dennis said...plus lets not forget about uniforming primer pockets and flash holes.
as far as tools go,i like the K&M products for turning and PP/FH work....get your self a wilson hand die and an arbor press to seat bullets and you wont need the concentricity gauge you just bought....a forster full length sizing die...a stainless steel tumbler from STM and a good set of calipers...starrett or Mitutoyo...a good primer seating tool...again i like the K&M with the gauge for seating primers.

theres other things but this and what the other guys have said is going to make your ammo more accurate than your riffle but will help you learn so when you do buy/build a custom youll have the tools and know how to use them to load accurate ammo.

Before you go any further, before you buy any more gadgets, reloading supplies or magic bullets, you need to verify that your optics are not the problem. The best ammo in the best barrel, in the best stock with the best trigger won't shoot consistant, if your scope won't hold zero. No brand is above suspicion with me, I seen the best go bad.
I've fixed more "bad barrels" by replacing scopes than any other way.