111 .300 Win Mag

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07-13-2015, 01:16 PM
92stroker

111 .300 Win Mag

I guess build threads is the best place to put this. This is going to be a bit of a long term build because I don't have a lot to spend, but I just took a huge leap forward, and wanted to share.

Now some of you may have read my intro thread months ago, and if so, sorry for the redundancy, but here are the basics:

Savage 111 .300 Win Mag, not sure of the exact model, it was a kit gun with a Bushnell 3-9x40, black plastic stock, and a drop box magazine.

I started out fitting it, which required some spacers to extend the LOP to 15", which of course required that my scope move back further than the rings would allow, so I got an EGW 20MOA base, and some cheap UTG 6 bolt rings. Once the placement was right, I got my eye in line using a cheek piece from Tactical works.

After the first round of modifications were completed, I took it to the range, zero'd it, and shot a 4 shot .624" hole off a bag at 100yds. Not bad.

The next thing I did was get a Harris bipod, and a pod lock, and have had it out in the desert a few times working on my prone shooting, as this is a long range build.

The prone hasn't been going well, as this rifle with a sporter barrel, light plastic stock, and no muzzle brake, is really a handful in the recoil department, and she's kissed me more than once. I'm working on my technique, though, and down the road, a heavy barrel and a muzzle brake should help quite a bit.

Now for the good stuff!

This last weekend a good friend of mine came down from CO for a wedding, and brought me some gifts! One of which was a sweet new pair of waders (not relevant here, but still awesome!), and the other was a new optic! He had decided to simplify his long range rifle (a Remington 700 .308), and installed a new Bushnell Elite Tactical fixed 10x on it, and had no use for his old optic, a Nikon Monarch UCC 6.5-20x44!

So I promptly installed the Nikon, which included a matched set of Ken Farrell rings, bore sighted it, and that's where we're at now. Hopefully I'll be able to get it zero'd sometime this week and print a group!

I'll post pics soon!
07-13-2015, 03:01 PM
Robinhood

put some weight in the stock
07-13-2015, 03:59 PM
92stroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood

put some weight in the stock

Yeah, so I've been thinking about how to do this. Any suggestions? I was going to try gluing some ball bearings or lead shot into the fore-end, but I'm not sure what to use to keep it in place. JB weld would hold it, but it's a PITA to work with. Would something as simple as hot glue work? I don't really care too much about this stock, as I intend to replace it, but if I could make it work a little better for the interim, that would be great.
07-13-2015, 04:59 PM
olddav

You just got to love handme downs like that.
Hot glue should work but I'm thinking that epoxy would be better, unless you have some hot glue on hand.
07-13-2015, 05:30 PM
92stroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddav

You just got to love handme downs like that.
Hot glue should work but I'm thinking that epoxy would be better, unless you have some hot glue on hand.

That's the truth!

I agree, epoxy would be better, I just hate working with it. That said, I don't have a hot glue gun either, so it's kind of a wash. I'm thinking maybe I should try some epoxy putty. Home Depot has some metal infused EP from Oatey that's not too expensive. Just need a good weight media.
07-13-2015, 07:01 PM
olddav

Try a tire store for used wheel weights or iron shavings from brake disc lathe, (shaving will require epoxy).
08-21-2015, 02:11 PM
92stroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddav

Try a tire store for used wheel weights or iron shavings from brake disc lathe, (shaving will require epoxy).

This is a great idea! Although, I may end up with a new stock and a brake before it comes to that. At that point I will be done until I can afford to invest in a new barrel and all the tools to install it, which will be a while.

A couple updates!

About two weeks ago I got the rifle out to the desert to zero the Nikon. It didn't go well. I had the elevation buried, and was still hitting 16 minutes high at 100 yards! I pulled it off and remounted it to make sure everything was good to go, and tried it again. No change. On top of that, to get the windage zero'd I had to use 36 of the 38 minutes, leaving only two minutes of left hand windage correction!

So I filled out the repair request via the Nikon website, and sent it off. A week or so later, I saw that they had accepted it UNDER WARRANTY and were going to REPLACE it with a brand new optic! Great news! Well, the one I had is no longer made, so the replacement will actually be a sweet upgrade, and I should have it on Tuesday!

Desert life! (sorry for the quality)
http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps11ktou1r.jpg
08-21-2015, 07:38 PM
LongRange

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92stroker

That's the truth!

I agree, epoxy would be better, I just hate working with it. That said, I don't have a hot glue gun either, so it's kind of a wash. I'm thinking maybe I should try some epoxy putty. Home Depot has some metal infused EP from Oatey that's not too expensive. Just need a good weight media.

stainless steel BBs.
08-21-2015, 10:09 PM
darkker

You can buy epoxy in a twin plunger affair, so if pushing the plunger then stirring is to much for you; consider paying someone to build your rifle.

The buttstock is hollow as is the friend.
That being said, a factory stock is a total POS for prove work. The Drop in the comb tends to exaggerate recoil.
For recoil management, checkout the Hide's video on it. Look-up SHLowlight's YouTube channel for the video.

Keep after it, you'll get there.
08-22-2015, 04:25 PM
olddav

Congrats on the upgrade. I see the gift keeps on giving. By the way, is that a orange balloon, Jupter acending or just a figure tip in the pic?
08-23-2015, 05:23 PM
devildogandboy

92stroker, here's a look at desert life! here is my target set up at 200yds.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...IMG_0146-1.jpg

Bruce
08-24-2015, 02:13 PM
92stroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkker

You can buy epoxy in a twin plunger affair, so if pushing the plunger then stirring is to much for you; consider paying someone to build your rifle.

The buttstock is hollow as is the friend.
That being said, a factory stock is a total POS for prove work. The Drop in the comb tends to exaggerate recoil.
For recoil management, checkout the Hide's video on it. Look-up SHLowlight's YouTube channel for the video.

Keep after it, you'll get there.

Working with epoxy is something that I'm pretty familiar with and well within the scope of my abilities, but as you say, the factory stock is a POS, and epoxy is just a PITA. When I get a stock worth investing the time and headache into, I will certainly be bedding it, and since all bedding compounds are some type of epoxy, it's unavoidable. I had been curious about other methods for faster cure, less mess, and less effort. This thing would have to be fully filled and stiffened, and I'm still skeptical of how it would perform on a bipod even after doing all of that (right now, even the lightest contact at the comb causes the forend to flex).

Thanks for the links on the recoil management information, I'm going to look them up shortly. I have added about 1-3/4" of elevation to the comb with a neoprene block under a velcro cheek piece. That get's my eye on the reticle pretty effectively, but the position of the butt pad is still super low. With the bipod legs fully extended (6-9" Harris) I'm still getting a lot of muzzle jump. I'm hoping that with a new stock (most likely a Boyds Pro Varmint) I'll be able to bring up the fulcrum on my shoulder, which should direct the energy more rearward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddav

Congrats on the upgrade. I see the gift keeps on giving. By the way, is that a orange balloon, Jupter acending or just a figure tip in the pic?

Haha, yeah, that's just my finger tip. It's a cell phone pic and the sun was at my back so I couldn't see the screen.

Yeah, I'm excited to say that since my old optic is no longer made, I get quite an upgrade, and despite it being against Nikon's policy to replace with ANYTHING but the closest possible match, I was able to sway them to my way of thinking. The closest thing to my Monarch UCC 6-20 x 44 was the new Monarch 3 5-20 x 44. That would have been an upgrade in some ways (side parallax, more low end magnification/better FOV) there was one significant downgrade, a 4MOA deficit of the internal elevation. I told them that was a big deal to me because I shoot long range (or try), and they told me they'd put in my request for 4-16 x 42 with the Mildot reticle - but not to expect it. Well, the next day I got the tracking number and part number they were sending, and guess what? It's the 4-16 Midot!!! I couldn't be happier, it's still a Monarch 3 and still has side parallax, but it has 40MOA internal elevation instead of 34, AND it has 1/4 MOA click values instead of 1/8. Oh and the Monarch 3 has instant reset zero stop turrets, so that's a nice little bonus as well. All in all it has worked out quite well. New optic should be here tomorrow!

Quote:

Originally Posted by devildogandboy

92stroker, here's a look at desert life! here is my target set up at 200yds.

That's great. Is this right in your backyard? I live in the city, so I still have to drive 25 minutes or so to get to the closest spot, and more like 45 minutes to get to open space where I can look for the long shots. The area in the photo has a max range of about 650 yards. In open space it's possible to set up mile shots.
08-24-2015, 07:01 PM
darkker

For stiffening the stock....stock; it isn't worth it.
I did the carbon fiber, and aluminum arrows. Just made things flex in other areas.
08-24-2015, 10:21 PM
92stroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkker

For stiffening the stock....stock; it isn't worth it.
I did the carbon fiber, and aluminum arrows. Just made things flex in other areas.

Not surprised. I had thought to use a cut of 1/4 leg angle with an epoxy fill and add some ball bearings, but it sounded like a lot of effort to put into a stock that still offered none of the features I wanted in a stock. He'll I already bought like $30 worth of spacers to extend my LOP for fit... next thing you know I'd be getting dangerously close to the price of a functional Boyd's stock...
08-25-2015, 01:00 PM
devildogandboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92stroker

That's great. Is this right in your backyard? I live in the city, so I still have to drive 25 minutes or so to get to the closest spot, and more like 45 minutes to get to open space where I can look for the long shots. The area in the photo has a max range of about 650 yards. In open space it's possible to set up mile shots.

it's a 30 mile drive for me and requires 4x4 to get to, takes me 45 minutes from home to spot. there is enough clearing to go 500yds, maybe a little more. the good thing is there is never anybody out there.

Bruce
08-27-2015, 02:28 PM
92stroker

Not bad. About the same story for me. The spot in the photo used to be accessible by car, but all the recent rain we've had washed out the main road in, and the secondary access is at least 4x4 recommended, although, someone with experience could get through it with a 2wd high clearance vehicle like a pre-runner. Now that I have an optic designed to dial elevation, I'm hoping to get out to the other spot and set up some long shots!
08-30-2015, 07:17 PM
92stroker

Well, I got out to the range today with the new optic, and the results were... Frustrating. Elevation knob is buried, and I am hitting about 3.5" high at 100. Granted, that is a marked improvement from the 16" I was seeing with optic that Nikon replaced, but still not good enough for a 100yd zero. So what are my options? Its my understanding that moving the scope back on the 20moa base will lower the POI, but I am already in the last slot. I could maybe get back another 1/2" MAX, by sliding it back in the rings. Would a base with less or no can't bring my poi down? What about higher rings? Can a good gunsmith fix it with machining?

Thanks in advance, could really use some advice!
08-31-2015, 08:29 AM
yobuck

Put one or two thickneses of a beverage can shim under the front of the base and see what happens.
Keep the scope where the eye relief is correct. It wont change anything anyway.
If the shims work id get a zero taper base from Egw or whoever you like.
08-31-2015, 01:30 PM
Hotolds442

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92stroker

Well, I got out to the range today with the new optic, and the results were... Frustrating. Elevation knob is buried, and I am hitting about 3.5" high at 100. Granted, that is a marked improvement from the 16" I was seeing with optic that Nikon replaced, but still not good enough for a 100yd zero. So what are my options? Its my understanding that moving the scope back on the 20moa base will lower the POI, but I am already in the last slot. I could maybe get back another 1/2" MAX, by sliding it back in the rings. Would a base with less or no can't bring my poi down? What about higher rings? Can a good gunsmith fix it with machining?

Thanks in advance, could really use some advice!

Moving the scope on a 20MOA base will not move POI. The angle of 20 minutes is the same across the entire length of the scope base.
08-31-2015, 02:56 PM
92stroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by yobuck

Put one or two thickneses of a beverage can shim under the front of the base and see what happens.
Keep the scope where the eye relief is correct. It wont change anything anyway.
If the shims work id get a zero taper base from Egw or whoever you like.

Can shims! That is a great idea, thank you! I'll get on that ASAP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotolds442

Moving the scope on a 20MOA base will not move POI. The angle of 20 minutes is the same across the entire length of the scope base.

Thank you, that is what I needed to know. I had read that on a base with cant, your POI will change moving it forward or backward.

EDIT: I found a cool formula:

From http://www.predatormastersforums.com...Number=1103505

"(The thickness of the shim) = (distance between rings) X (distance you want to move the impact
at 100 yards) divided by 3600. All dimensions are in inches."

This was in regards to adding shim under the REAR ring to bring the POI up for a further zero, but should work the same way to lower the POI by adding shim under the front ring if I'm not mistaken.

I also found some reference indicating that a coke can wall is between .0038" and .0047" thick. I still need to measure my ring spacing, but i'm guessing one shim should do the trick if my spacing is around 4", so I'll give it a shot ASAP. I'll probably end up ordering a 0moa base in the long run, or maybe a 10moa base from Ken Farrell. This optic only has 40moa of internal elevation, so I would like as much of that as possible to maximize the range of this scope.
08-31-2015, 06:51 PM
yobuck

For what its worth lots of us had shims under the rear of the scope bases for years.
Reason being even in the mid/late 80s there were no tapered bases unless somebody made their own.
So use your own judgment on how quickly you replace the base.
Forget the ring spacing, just add a shim and go shoot.
08-31-2015, 08:41 PM
92stroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by yobuck

For what its worth lots of us had shims under the rear of the scope bases for years.
Reason being even in the mid/late 80s there were no tapered bases unless somebody made their own.
So use your own judgment on how quickly you replace the base.
Forget the ring spacing, just add a shim and go shoot.

Love it, thank you.
09-01-2015, 01:16 PM
92stroker

Shim installed. I only did one for the first attempt, so hopefully that will get the job done. If the shim thickness is in the neighborhood of what I researched online, it will be just about spot on, hopefully a little low so I can dial it. If not, I'll just throw another one under it and go from there.