MkII FVSR ammo test (lots of ammo involved)

So I have been grabbing up as much .22 as I can and am going to be doing an accuracey test with all of these :) I have hunted around enough to know who has .22 because it is very hard to come by but I know have a standing order of RWS target and Hornady .17 HMR vmax at a very cool little local store.
This weekend I will be testing these and at 100 yards, Im sure I can get tiny groups at 50 but I shoot at 100+ 95% of the time. Heres what I have so far
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...pshybopyqt.jpg
I will be usuing my MKII in a boyds with a Ncstar (dont laugh its actually quite solid) Shooter 6x24x50AO
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psb06cq4yr.jpg
It seems to really like CCI so far but does pretty well with most rounds. I also will be testing to see if the Tactical Solutions Compensator affects accuracy or not. Any ideas/ suggestions on how to do the testing? I was thinking 5 or 10 round groups with each type waiting about 20 minutes in between brands to let the barrel cool. Also the POI will shift with the corresponding velocity changes which I think I can handle with my mil dot reticule. Photos coming soon.....

Picked up a 500 round box of more CCI standard velocity and 500 rounds of Norma Match.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psezkvrzma.jpg

My brother just bought one of these last week and so far we have tested wolf match target, wolf match extra and CCI standard. They all shoot about the same accuracy wise about a half inch at 50 yards. We have some Norma match on its way as well and hoping that shoots a bit better.

If your gun likes the Norma Match you will have some very accurate and consistent shooting ammo to use . I have 2 different lots of it and it is very impressive in 2 of my rifles . I don't get the fliers that my CCI Standard and Norma Tac 22 give ruining a good group .

Interested to see what the outcome of your "testing" produced. IMO 5 rounds mean nothing. Many rifles can come up with a good 5 round group. Start putting some rounds down the tube (15-20) and then see what your groups are. You may want to think about mixing different ammo at the same time. Different manufacturers utilize different lube on the bullets. "Mixing" this lube in the barrel WILL NOT produce consistency. It will produce goo and gum. Don't believe me, do it and then look at your barrel with a borescope. Many rimfire shooters think you don't have to clean your rifle. My response, go to any serious competition and you will see shooters cleaning their rifles after the match just like centerfire shooters do. A clean firearm is an accurate firearm.
Good luck with the test.

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Originally Posted by Reeseman

If your gun likes the Norma Match you will have some very accurate and consistent shooting ammo to use . I have 2 different lots of it and it is very impressive in 2 of my rifles . I don't get the fliers that my CCI Standard and Norma Tac 22 give ruining a good group .

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Same here with my 4 Savage Mark II 22s...they all love the Norma match ammo...even the Norma T-22 ammo has been superb in my rifles for the most part...

Ours much prefers the wolf match. The Norma match throws the first shot high at 12 every time and groups the next four in about 3/4"

The best rounds that I have found for my Savage so far are the SK Rifle Match. Thinking about buying a brick of the Standard to see how they do considering they are about $2.00 a box cheaper. There is not that much difference for me between the Wolf Match and the Match Extra so I am hoping it will be the same with SK.

I just picked up a bunch of Aguila Super Extra for my FV-SR. Hoping it does well. We shall see. Very interested to see what your groups and findings look like. Hurry up already! lol

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Originally Posted by NOKNOT

The best rounds that I have found for my Savage so far are the SK Rifle Match. Thinking about buying a brick of the Standard to see how they do considering they are about $2.00 a box cheaper. There is not that much difference for me between the Wolf Match and the Match Extra so I am hoping it will be the same with SK.

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SK Rifle Match is exactly the same as Wolf Match Extra just a different box. The Wolf Match Extra does tighten the groups up considerably for me though over the Wolf Match Target.

Rather than start my own thread I figured I would post my testing results here. I set up some old spools in the back yard and set my box out at 50 yards. I shot all groups off of a small caldwell rest and rear bag. It was not the best set up in the world but it worked. Between my brother his wife ans myself we have two Ruger 10/22s and a month old Savage MKII FV. My Ruger 10/22 has a 18" green mountain bentz match barrel and wears a Mueller 4-14x40 scope in factory stock. My wifes 10/22 sets in a Boyds thumbhole and wears a 18" E.R. Shaw barrel with a BSA 6-18x40 Sweet 22 scope. The MKII FV is completely factory and set up with an old Redfield Police tactical 3-9x50 scope. Working from left to right with each brand of ammo as follows, Norma Match, Wolf Match Extra, Wolf Match Extra and CCI Quiet. I shot the Wolf Match Extra twice just because I have more of that than anything and I wanted to use up all the targets. My brother had ordered some ELY Hollow point that showed up just before dark so I set up again and shot five shot groups with each rife along the bottom row. All groups are measured from the widest part outside to outside. The MKII FV really liked the Ely Hollow points the best and absolutely hates the CCI Quiet stuff.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...ps6tw1q01g.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...psq4ytq4rh.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...psz0zcjkvn.jpg

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...pszsdqdvll.jpg

I have been struggling with my newly-acquired Mark II FV SR and am at the point of trying better ammo. I have purchased a mix of five boxes...
RWS Special Match, RWS Subsonic HP, CCI Standard Velocity, ELEY Club Extra, and Federal Match. I'm hoping the ELEY looks like stomp442's ELEY.

OK....nothing beats practice practice practice. Or maybe a breaking in of a barrel? Anyway, today things settled down and I am relieved, because I was seriously wondering about this particular rifle. It did a couple of groups of five touching at 50 yards today. ELEY was the best (3/8") but even Golden Bullets brick stuff did well as did Federal. The trick with this rifle is finding how to control it. Shooting from bags. Anyway, lest I appeared to be down on Savage Mark IIs, I am elated that I didn't get a lemon. :-)

Interesting that yours and my brothers both seem to like the Ely stuff best. I have yet to do any testing with any high-velocity ammo to see how that does.

Sorry Ive been slacking but heres a few groups Ive been doing all mine at 100 5 rounds groups. Shoot off at another target to the side to re-zero to compensate for different velocities and bullet weights.

aquila super match pistol not all that impressive but not bad
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...pslczzx0mi.jpg
So heres some quick results, on this day my groups started opening up as I was coming up on 1,500 rounds since last cleaning so I cleaned the gun, put 75 rounds of CCI standard through it then shot these groups. Starting clockwise from top left, Federal Automatch (bulk box of 325), CCI Standard velocity (gun seems to really like these consistantly), Norma Match, Armscor 36 gr HP which I will not be buying anymore of. Ill be using the rest on prairie dogs, and Eley match in the center. These are 100 yard groups with the FVSR in a tacticool. I was prone shooting of a road paved with 2 inch rocks so my bipod rest was anything but sonsistant, anyways enough excuses. I have shot much better groups consistantley with the Norma before and am going to shoot multiple groups with the same ammo.



http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psnnlpd8qm.jpg

heres the gun
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psywh91xws.jpg

and just for fun here are some surprising groups I shot at 200 with my TR, CCI 17 gr HP. The few shots that look like they fragmented were some leftover Hornady Vmaxs. I was chugging along pretty good with these about 2 seconds per shot on some, running the bolt as quickly as I could. Also dialed down in scope power which seems to help keeping a real steady aim. I am totally cool with around 1" groups at 200y. was just aiming at a few different spots on the plate, next time Im going to go for a solid hold and see what can happen.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psl0xzramt.jpg
heres the 93r17TR I shot that with
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...pswxgxifxw.jpg
heres my position for the groups of 4 different ammo in the second pic. Prone and with a bipod and bag. Same for the 17 on the steel.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps9r2h3bm4.jpg
hheres the spot where I shot the groups with the Aquila, had to do it off a table because the field grass is getting too tall for prone.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psbqtkwei1.jpg
and heres some scenery from the first spot nice and early.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psd9newawg.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/m...psxlv6tk8m.jpg

Also Just got more boxes of Mini mags, Mini Mag HPs, Stingers, a 300 rnd box of AR Tactical which this gun loves (I'm guessing because they really have a lot of wax on them),Winchester of some kind and some 42 gr winchester. I don't have high hopes for the win stuff but we will see. Probably gonna do a few better groups with the 17 at 100 as well. Thanks for contributing Stomp442 (Anthrax much? I got to meet Scott Ian briefly when I was like 14). Sweet looking guns. I have been looking around at Green Mountain barrels and hear good things especially for the money. Possibly a Axis project gun .....:)

Yes Anthrax much! You are the first one to get it right, most everyone else asks me about Oldsmobile's. I have seen them live a couple times, I am a huge John Bush fan and really love the Bush era albums.

I couldn't believe how BAD Armscor is. It should be internationally illegal to let that stuff leave the Philippines. Taking money for it is theft by deception.

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Originally Posted by Bang

I couldn't believe how BAD Armscor is. It should be internationally illegal to let that stuff leave the Philippines. Taking money for it is theft by deception.

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It is BAD bad. like only good in a 10/22 blasting away at pop cans from 15 yards and youll get lucky bad.

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Originally Posted by BR Dominator

Interested to see what the outcome of your "testing" produced. IMO 5 rounds mean nothing. Many rifles can come up with a good 5 round group. Start putting some rounds down the tube (15-20) and then see what your groups are. You may want to think about mixing different ammo at the same time. Different manufacturers utilize different lube on the bullets. "Mixing" this lube in the barrel WILL NOT produce consistency. It will produce goo and gum. Don't believe me, do it and then look at your barrel with a borescope. Many rimfire shooters think you don't have to clean your rifle. My response, go to any serious competition and you will see shooters cleaning their rifles after the match just like centerfire shooters do. A clean firearm is an accurate firearm.
Good luck with the test.

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Definately took that into account because you are right. Every time I switched I moved off to a zeroing target and shot a few mags to re zero for each load. No way would I have achieved the groups I did if I just switched from 5 round group to 5 round group. I agree 100%.

Also in regards to the post about cleaning. I used to be an obsessive cleaner of my .17 hmr and was wondering why I couldnt get a decent group. Then I stopped cleaning after every outing. groups tightened up. Same with my mkII, at around 6-700 rounds the groups started opening up very noticeably all with the same ammo the whole time, cleaned ran about a box of 50 maybe more and it was back to the best I've seen it shoot. This is a factory savage barrel on a 220$ gun with a 100$ stock. Not exactly an Anschuntz. So perhaps the constant cleaning does work for the real match guys but that has not been my personal experience but as always I am will to experiment to find the best accuracy At this point I dont think Ill be buying anything other than CCI unless I need the Eley for some shorter range match type stuff. Believe it or not but I put one in a Pdogs brain stem from 168 yards (lazed) but I will admit there was an element of luck to that. I've only had this gun a couple of months though so we shall see. Once I get my 20 MOA rail. Pdogs watch out.

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Originally Posted by Lorenzo

Also in regards to the post about cleaning. I used to be an obsessive cleaner of my .17 hmr and was wondering why I couldnt get a decent group. Then I stopped cleaning after every outing. groups tightened up. Same with my mkII, at around 6-700 rounds the groups started opening up very noticeably all with the same ammo the whole time, cleaned ran about a box of 50 maybe more and it was back to the best I've seen it shoot. This is a factory savage barrel on a 220$ gun with a 100$ stock. Not exactly an Anschuntz. So perhaps the constant cleaning does work for the real match guys but that has not been my personal experience but as always I am will to experiment to find the best accuracy At this point I dont think Ill be buying anything other than CCI unless I need the Eley for some shorter range match type stuff. Believe it or not but I put one in a Pdogs brain stem from 168 yards (lazed) but I will admit there was an element of luck to that. I've only had this gun a couple of months though so we shall see. Once I get my 20 MOA rail. Pdogs watch out.

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I clean my BTVLSS when accuracy starts to fall off.

If testing compatibility of .22LR ammos, I don't re-zero. I don't care where the group groups. The bullseye is just a way of aiming at the same point and repeating a sight picture at let-off.

Sometimes I won't even hang a target (50 yards). I'll find and fire at a single hole in the backer, or create one. If by some really odd and crazy confluence of circumstances a remarkable group presents, it can always be photographed.

Seems if a bore needs 50 rounds through it to come up to accurate then deteriorates over additional shooting, the bore is inferior.

Some bores are very smooth in the grooves, some look like whoops on a motocross track. A box of 50 to fill in the depressions is a temporary fix. Sufficient for casual shooting, totally a killer if seriously competing, or if eating depends on accuracy.

i re-zeroed just because I wanted to and I totally understand what your saying. A group is a group just keep the same POA. Well like I said as much as I love the gun it is a 220$ gun. I see barrels that cost more than that so take from that what you will. I am not saying I had to put 50 rounds through it for it to be accurate thats just what I did based on my experience with my .17. I would imagine that these savage off the shelf barrels are inferior compared to a high end after market barrel. But they shoot almost as good with some fouling and continue to do so after many hundreds of rounds. Just my experience. Also the fact that .22s shoot copper jacketed and not jacketed lead bullets makes then different that most centerfire guns in my eyes.

https://youtu.be/rW6SF-jlbkg

this video I found informative. Also in the Art of the Precision Rifle Todd Hoddnet mentions only removing carbon and using only mpro7 on center fire rifles and that after removing the copper bearing surface his Surgeon rifle need 42 rounds to go from a 2 minute gun back down to sub .5 minute gun. I am not trying to argue with you just sharing my results. I am open to trying and challenging anything in the spirit of accuracy so don't think I'm just blindly following others. As I have said before Ive only had the gun a couple months and will continue to experiment. it seems to me that you are emotionally invested in this topic some how and are trying to turn an experiment into an argument which doesn't make much sense to me. Either way from what I've seen online from guys that spend pretty big money totally customizing their .22s they really don't shoot that much better than my stock savage with a boyds stock. I believe its mostly the shooter, the rest is very important but it comes down to mastery of fundamentals. I will be doing some more tests with the mini mags, mini mag HP and stingers asap.

Another extremely informative article. Probably the most in depth yet on rimfire cleaning.

http://www.rrdvegas.com/rimfire-cleaning.html

No need to be concerned that I may think you are arguing. It's discussion and a learning curve (a lifetime adventure) to me. Please be assured of that.
I was passing on information I have read re filling in bad spots improving accuracy. High-end barrels have little or no need of such (actually a bit of a presumption on my part).
I'm still shooting 6 different ammos (well, 4..ran out of two). Odd inconsistencies are the puzzle. Such as I have had groups with brick Rem Golden Bullet that equal expensive Rem-Eley lub Xtra. But then the RGB group may open up a bit next time. I am also impressed with CCI Standard Velocity, having made notation that it's the best deal for the dollar so far. The real challenge is my doing everything right every time...which makes me wish I had a machine rest to ascertain just what is the best ammo. But then the lots can change, one ammo may be great at 88 degrees ambient and 55 degrees may mean find a different one. Boing boing boing.....it's a conspiracy so we'll keep buying and trying, like fishing lures catch fishermen.

Here is a great treatise on small bore group analysis:

http://rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm

Lorenzo, thanks for the links. I found it interesting in the video that one of the guys states if your rifle takes more than one or two shots to come back in you're cleaning it too much.

I find the CCI standard velocity really is the best bang for the buck, it was as consistent or maybe ever a little more than the brick of Norma Match. Your really right about the temp and doing everything the same on the gun each shot. That really is the biggest thing. If I start shooting without really keeping that in mind I shoot like crap lol.

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Originally Posted by Bang

Here is a great treatise on small bore group analysis:

http://rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm

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sweet article thanks.

Well, I've sent over 500 rounds through this pipe across 50 yards divided by 18 power and have been gnashing my teeth at the size and randomness of the groups. A one-inch spread is normal, so is three or four very close together with the rogue that screws it up.

Yesterday at 94 degrees and no wind I shot at my usual home-made target consisting of twelve 3/4" blue sticky dots on 8-1/2 by 11 white copy paper. I tried several different ways of holding the rifle and of touching only the trigger and trigger guard (with my thumb). Front end on a padded scissors jack, heel on a V bag. I finally got a group of five in .359". A random success, indeed, but the rifle did it, so it has given me a huge lift of spirit and appreciation for the rifle.

Now here's the kicker....I was shooting the 525 brick of Federal Golden Bullets, 36 grain brass-plated hollow point generally viewed as junk! Also, the spring I had in the trigger yields a let-off of about 12 ounces. It is so light, the bolt sometimes does not cock...the sear slips to the safe notch on closing. Happens maybe once in 30 rotations. Apachee set-up is future plan.

And the beat goes on....

If you haven't changed the bottom metal I'd recommend that too along with the Apachee trigger kit. I seem to shoot better groups using squares for targets, I aim at the corner.

I made my own plate of 1/8" thick aluminum. The extra-special steel plate on the Boyd's stock was bending with only 15 in-lbs torque. I agree about the squares and bracketing one corner. I think I'll try that again. Thanks!

Bought a box of 50 Gemtech .22LR subsonic at the Oaks gun show to try out in the Savage Mark II.


Impressive. Looked up Gemtech and found they are manufacturers of suppressors and have a line of subsonics as well.


Turns out these Gemtech .22LR are made by CCI. Interesting, as CCI standard velocity LR is the one of the cartridges my Mk II shoots best. The Gemtech bullet is 42 grains.


And the beat goes on….