Are the Pacific Tool bolt heads stronger than the factory bolt heads.
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Are the Pacific Tool bolt heads stronger than the factory bolt heads.
No.
Just out of curiosity what are the advantages of these?
Is there an advantage?
The advantage of buying a PT&G bolt head is: you can get one made to fit custon made Wildcat cases like a PPC, 6.8 SPC or even a 17 VHA. (if you can stand the wait!!) Savage doesn't make them so you go custom made. Other folks besides PT&G will also make custom (modified) cut bolt heads.
For me after I installed mine it took out a lot of the sloppiness compared to the factory bolt body and that was my only reason for buying it in the first place. I read a review of it on Midway and the guy said he felt like it reduced his sloppiness by 80% I don't know if I can make that claim, but I will say to me it is a night and day difference over the factory bolt body as far as the sloppiness/smoothness and was well worth the money. The fact that it is spiral fluted and looks cool is just a added bonus......:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by alphapygmy
They're talking about bolt heads, not bolt bodies. Other than the custom sizes the only advantage is if your factory bolt head has a flaw of some type causing issues. Some call Savage to get it replaced, some call PTG. Savage requires an FFL or waiver in order to ship these parts though I believe. Sometimes you can just contact Numrich and get the part you need even quicker though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palmetto-Pride
I was wondering if they would be a viable option vs getting the firing pin hole bushed. I was getting some crater primering even on light loads and had Gretan bush the hole and it fixed the cratering. $80 for a bushing job vs ~$50 for a new PTG bolt head IF the firing pin hole is sized nice and tight. I have a PTG head in a box waiting I just have no way to measure the hole and nothing that needs a bolt head at the moment.
Opps overlooked that.............lol:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphapygmy
I've seen a few other posts over my time here about guys getter some primer cratering and the PTG Bolt Head Fixing their problem, but it is possible that Savage may opt to correct or sell you a new part as well. Also look at Gunshack (another sponsor of this site). I'm pretty sure the bolt heads they sell are OEM.
Already had Gre-Tan bush the stock bolt head. I was going to put in the PT&G just to see what happens but the rifle is shooting so well right now I'm not touching anything.
Just make sure with the PTG if you go that route you reset the headspace; from what I understand it is slightly longer/thicker lugs than the OEM version.
I've heard that as well. I haven't even opened the box it came in yet and looked at it. Built a new rifle and that's got all my interest right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrelNuts
Most cratering is the result of the pin tip profile and or any chamfer around the pin hole when using Savage bolt heads. Without getting into the details, I take a light across the face and re-contour the pin tip from a taper to a radius as SOP.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphapygmy
Bill
actually the savage piece is stamped the ptg is machined. the ptg will be more square and less stress. good option if you are truing the action up
Speaking of PTG, I ordered a couple of their bolt lift kits to try out. I'm interested in seeing if they will lighten up the lift on an already light lift bolt handle.
Any of you guys use their bottom metal & mag set up?
I just put a 300 Win Mag together and I'm thinking about adding the bottom metal & higher capacity mag.
Sorry OP....
I saw the PT&G name and had to ask while all the PT&G knowledgeable guys are here.
I am amazed to find out via fred that the factory ones are stronger. I wish fred would elaborate on what makes the factory bolthead stronger,is it powdered metal?
I can't say with any authority what they're made of, but when I take a light cut across the face and or lugs it comes off like dust which would lead me to think they're machined and polished castings.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbearman
Some years ago the question was asked why there's a fillet( radius) at the junction of the shaft and lugs. My best guess, the same bit with a radiused tip was used to turn the shaft and lugs in the same setup.
Dunno!
Bill
The original question was:
My answer was { No}Quote:
Originally Posted by OIF/OEF
I don't know how one could misinterpret that meaning the factory bolt head is stronger. For all practical purposes they are made of the same material and the same strength.
Contrary to what has been said by persons promoting PTG bolt heads, factory bolt heads have NEVER been cast, sintered, or forged. First production bolt heads were machined from solid barstock until 1988. After that, extruded barstock was used to eliminate several machining operations and insure uniformity. Savage used this exclusively until a few years ago when they gained more vendors supplying bolt heads. Some are still made from extruded stock, some are made from solid bar. Bolt heads that have dimples machined on the tenon are made by vendors that use solid barstock. The number of dimples identify the vendor.
PTG bolt heads offer no advantage over a factory bolt head, strength wise or accuracy wise. The only advantages are availability of configurations not offered by the factory.
"PTG bolt heads offer no advantage over a factory bolt head, strength wise or accuracy wise. The only advantages are availability of configurations not offered by the factory."
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Exactly. I wanted a SA magnum bolthead pushfeed to turn a savage model 12 LRP into a 7mm SAUM. I found one at Midway ( a PTG) and the project has been a total success. I would have been just as happy with a savage part but i could not , from Australia, find one on the internet. Anyways all well that ends well, the target rifle placed second in F open on its first outing and I have now tuned it to shoot like a 6BR on steroids :)
I went ahead and made this a sticky as it seems every time I turn around we're having this discussion about the so-called benefits of the PT&G bolt heads. Now if we can just get Fred to expound on why the PT&G oversize bolt bodies are a bad idea I could sticky it as well and finally put an end to the infectious spread of PT&G parts misinformation. lol
id also like to hear from Fred about the bolt bodies.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Baker
This is my understanding as well. I cut the shank off of an old bolt face, I assure you it is not powdered metal, MIM, ect. It's very tuff stuff! Articles such as this one, is the partial root of the misinformation:http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-savage-bolts/Quote:
The tumbling process is also what creates the slight dish in the factory bolt faces, and the elimination of the dish is the ONLY advantage an off the shelf PT&G bolt head would have over a factory one.
I wish Fred could further explain why he doesn't think the ptg bolt heads are not as strong as the factory ones which is what I use in my rifles but wondered what the difference was between them.
Jon, look at #20 above. He says they aren't stronger or weaker. They are essentially same material, etc.
I was going to say the same thing about post # 20 but I figured it better if someone else mentioned it. Pretty obvious to me.
I had extraction problems with my 110BA for about 2 years. I sent it back to Savage 2 times and they worked on it, but did not fix the problem.
I bought a bolt head from Pacific tool (took 4 months to receive it), had is installed, check the head spacing, and compared the savage and the pacific bolt heads.
The savage was off in size from one side to the other about .02, the pacific was dead on, side to side.
I have run 200 rounds through the rifle since then and have not had 1 piece of brass fail to extract.
Some have said the Hornady Brass is too soft, for me it was a bolt head that was not made correctly.
I can only go on looks at the moment. I bought a Pacific bolt face for my Savage Target action because of a caliber change. The factory Savage part looked like it was made by a kid in Juarez with a rock and an old file. It has a big ding on the edge of the face where the metal is actually peened over and standing proud of the face. Perhaps it was dropped or something, but it looks more like it was hit (hard) with something. If it was dropped, it was onto a very hard unyielding surface and from a considerable height.
On the other hand, the Pacific part looks like a real gun component. Nicely machined and finished. I don't yet know how it will function, but I'm glad I spent a few extra bucks based on looks alone.
I put one on my target action( 6.5x47 ) and model 12 bvss .223. I had cratering on primers with both rifles. The cratering went away on both rifles when I installed them.
I bought a PTG head for my Savage 12 which I converted to 6mm BR Norma. The bolt head is very nice looking; however, the diameter of the recess in the bolt face where the cartridge base fits is larger than the Savage factory part. The Savage part ejects the rounds properly. The PTG part, because it's larger, just drops the case in the receiver during extraction just as the case neck clears the chamber and I have to fish out the case by hand EVERY time. I contacted PTG about it and they said send it back. I sent them the dimensions, explaining that their part is significantly different from the Savage factory bolt face and asked if that was "normal" or not. In other words, did they possibly send me the wrong part or are all their "standard" (.473" diameter case base) bolt faces like the one they sent me.
That's important because if the part is the wrong one, I'd like to exchange it. On the other hand, if all the PTG bolt faces are made to the incorrect dimensions, then exchanging one bad part for another bad part makes no sense. The reason I wanted to find out about this is because I use this gun in competition and I hate for it to be out of commission any length of time. Plus, if I have to swap the factory bolt face in and then out again once I get the replacement part, that means I have to disassemble my rifle and set the head space twice rather than just once. I'd prefer to do it just once.
I even volunteered to purchase a second part and then get a refund later if they were worried about the value. Asking if the part dimensions I had on hand were the same as all the PTG heads or if mine was an error on their part which could be corrected was not an unreasonable request, at least in my view. Apparently PTG disagrees. "Send it back" is not what I wanted to hear, but now PTG refuses to answer my inquires about how to fix this problem.
Bottom line: They make nice looking parts and I have no doubt some of them function properly. But the one they sold me is defective and it doesn't work properly; i.e. it's unsatisfactory. Furthermore, they won't tell me if mine is unusual or if all their Savage 6mm (standard) bolt faces are made to the wrong dimension, in which case I would be wasting my time to exchange it. In other words, not only do PTG parts, in this instance anyway, suck, their customer service sucks too.
Yeah, in this case, their attitude seems to be as if you're only talking about a $50 item when, in fact, that one little part is affecting a $1,200-2,000 "system" and a large part of your shooting season. It shouldn't be that big a hassle for them to confirm the dimensions of the part they would be sending you to replace it. Even if the one you have would maybe work fine in another rifle, the fact it doesn't work in yours, and therefore you need a smaller one should justify their effort to find one or at least confirm that they don't have what you need.
I agree with LoneWolf, the bolt head has to be strong whoever it comes from. Bolt bodies are a different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Dennis
Do they make them for older 110 models? I need a bolt head for a pre-1999 110 Tactical 300 Win Mag. If anyone here knows where I can get one would be grateful for the help. Savage told they do not have it only the newer models. Brownells, Midway, and Numrich have all been a no go on finding it.
thanks in advance.
B Coz
Quote:
Originally Posted by zap
Same for me...cratering with the stock .223 bolt head was eliminated with a new PT&G head
I'm also fighting this with my V11 .223Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratbuster
I've modified the firing pin a little (flattened the tip a bit) and though it has helped, there is still some flashing around the firing pin indentation on the primer.
I'm on the fence as whether to pursue the pin modification, or get a PT&G bolt head. I hadn't heard of the headspace changing till reading this, but it makes sense I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbe
Original my 11 hunter cratered and occasionally pierced every load.
Now its GTG with the PTG bolt head.
What primer?
CCI400?
CCI 400Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead
I know I can switch to a different primer (BR4 or magnum) and the flashing will decrease or go away, but that's not really fixing the problem. These are not hot loads by any stretch.
my gunsmith just out a ptg bolt head and a factory bolt head in the Rockwell hardness tester. PTG was harder than factory. Also savage was harder than rem 700 bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
I suffered from the same experience with a PTG bolt head I purchased from classifieds in a gun forum. So I made made no argument with anyone. The PTG head was new and I paid top dollar. The measurements of the case head recess, ejector location and extractor location were all off a couple of thousandths here & there. The tolerance stack in this case caused drops. I remedied it with a new Savage head. I later fitted that head with one of my modified extractors and used it on another project. The modified extractors include moving the ball detent hole slightly outward and cutting the extractor under the case lip a smidge deeper. A couple of thousandths goes a long way to help hold on to a case till ejection is cleared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozella
Of coarse Savage Heads can be off in tolerance too.
I'm sorry to hear about every ones troubles. I have been happy with them.
The problem with primer cratering and blanking can usually be traced to excessive clearance between the firing pin and bolt head. If it measures more than .002 you'll likely have issues. On my factory new Savage 12FV in 223 that was blanking almost any factory or hand load, that clearance measured .007. I have several drill indexes and just found the drill that best fit the firing pin hole in the bolt head, measured that and measured the firing pin, which BTW is out of round by about a thou. or more.
I was able to purchase several firing pins from Savage and cherry pick one that fit best, eliminating the cratering and blanking issue.
Subsequent to that I had my other 223 bolt head bushed and that really seemed to improve groups.