Starting load question

Here's a question I'm sure most all newer reloaders want to ask but are afraid to ask.
Just what is the sequence of events leading up to that magic load? Do you start with standard COL lengths or do you start .005 off the lands or jammed? Where is the best place to start with powder charge? In the middle or down low and work up in 1 gr increments? Which comes first? I guess what I'm asking is where do you old timers and great shooters begin when working up a load? Then where do you go from that basic starting load to get to the rifles preferred sweet spot load? Given loading manual data, what is the deciding factor of where you begin when working up a good shooting load in your rifle?
Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get there without wearing out the barrel (and my wallet) before I find 'that' load.

There is really no right or wrong way to do things its all really preference if you do things different than what the book says. This is what I do right wrong or otherwise and it has worked great for me over the years. First I pick the bullet that I want to use and then find the over all length of where the ogive of that bullet makes contact with the rifling. I then subtract .025" and make sure that it fits the magazine if used for hunting rifles. If it does not fit the magazine a seat the bullet further down until it does and record that number as my over all length. As far as powder charge goes I usually start about two grains down from max and load five bullets in half grain increments and shoot groups until I start to see pressure signs or find the 'sweet spot'. Loading manuals are like everything else these days and dumbed down enough that Darwin award candidates can't kill themselves or someone else without a great deal of effort. More often than not I find a load towards the top end of what the manual says but a lot of times I find a load quite a bit higher than what the book says. This is why we always see people online say start low and work up, because whats safe in their rifle may not be in someone elses.

Having searched for 'that load' in more than one rifle and in a few pistols, I have learned that there is a broad range of settings that will work well enough until one's shooting skills and firearm support equipment on the bench are up to the task. This includes sighting equipment and trigger adjustments.

For example, I have a Browning BLR in .270 Win that won't give better than about 1.25 moa due to a number of factors, including an atrocious trigger that cannot be fixed because of the design of the rifle. I also have a TC Encore in 6.5 Grendel from Bullbery Barrel Works and a Savage Model 16 in 20 Grendel that routinely turn in sub-moa groups on calm days and I have seen the odd 0.3 moa groups with both. The sighting equipment on the Browning and the Savage is the same -- A Sightron S-1 in 3 - 9 X. The Model 16 proudly wears a Vortex 6-24X I borrowed from my middle son. The difference is the TC and the Savage were both built for accuracy.

Getting to the advice:

• Decide first what class of accuracy one needs. This is partly driven by the shooting one plans to do. Long range competitive shooting demands the epitome of accuracy while plinking rabbits at 75 yards allows 2 moa with no discernable differences in hits.
• Then equip your rifle or pistol to be modestly competitive. E. g., one can get as small as 1 moa groups with iron sights but it takes work. Any scope better than about 3x will allow working the 1 - 1.5 moa loads and one will find they are relatively easy to get with cookbook loads,
• Shoot with mild recoil ammunition and adjust your techniques and equipment until you have a good feel for how you and your firearm do.

Finally with the basics of shooting and reloading more or less established, one can move to the load tweaking stage.

• The OP raised a question about jamming the lands with a starting load. Jamming the lands can add 5,000 psi or more to the pressure so should be avoided until after one has a powder and bullet winnowed out from others using modest jumps.
• The starting load recipe should be that recommended by a reliable published source -- preferably a printed version.
• Work up in increments watching for both accuracy and pressure signs and track velocity if one has a chronometer.
  
  • Why is this important? Every chamber is different and yours might be tighter than average, causing the pressures to be higher than expected for a given recipe.
  • Velocities higher than expected from the published information almost certainly mean a tight chamber, short throat or other features that cause higher pressures.
  • Accuracy is more important than velocity, so stopping before one gets to published max loads or sees pressure signs, whichever is firsst, is both OK and a good practice.
  
  
• Plan to stop when your goal is either achieved or one realizes that he has gotten as close to the goal as practicable with his or her equipment, skills an techniques.

Of course, once one has gone through this cycle, the precision shooting bug will have bitten hard! This means that one will do it again with tweaks, changes of bullet powder, firearm, etc.

Yes, one might indeed wear out a barrel, but likely not before finding several loadssmeeting 'that load' status!

If you read the various post here you will find varying opinions on how to go about doing things like loading
and selecting things we use like scopes for example.
Whats good for one might not be good for another depending on their use and interest.
All my shooting/loading is done with regard to what i need for hunting. Therefore for me a decent
group with good velocity would be better than a very small group with poor velocity.
I always start load development by first looking for max velocity with whatever powder/bullet combination im trying.
If im happy with what i see, ill start tweeking seating depth and charge weight differences.
So ill pick a load pretty much on the top end of what the books call for as a starting point.
I will take an empty unprimed case and partially seat the bullet, then finish seating it with the bolt till the bolt closes.
Then back off that depth to what i feel a comfortable starting point. I load maybe 5 or 6 with 1 grain increases
and shoot them into a dirt pile untill i see pressure signs. When i find pressure i back off a grain and start load development.
So ive found the max with that combination with maybe 4 to 6 shots and thats my goal.
All my loads are confirmed for accuracy at 400 yds. I really dont care much about 100 yd groups.
Thats my system, but im sure others are shaking their heads over it.
How often do you check the air and rotate your tires?
Are you more comfortable making advance reservations for motels on long trips?

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Originally Posted by stomp442

There is really no right or wrong way to do things its all really preference if you do things different than what the book says. This is what I do right wrong or otherwise and it has worked great for me over the years. First I pick the bullet that I want to use and then find the over all length of where the ogive of that bullet makes contact with the rifling. I then subtract .025" and make sure that it fits the magazine if used for hunting rifles. If it does not fit the magazine a seat the bullet further down until it does and record that number as my over all length. As far as powder charge goes I usually start about two grains down from max and load five bullets in half grain increments and shoot groups until I start to see pressure signs or find the 'sweet spot'. Loading manuals are like everything else these days and dumbed down enough that Darwin award candidates can't kill themselves or someone else without a great deal of effort. More often than not I find a load towards the top end of what the manual says but a lot of times I find a load quite a bit higher than what the book says. This is why we always see people online say start low and work up, because whats safe in their rifle may not be in someone elses.

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i do the same thing stomp does with the exception of seating depth...i start touching the lands this tells me two things right off....pressure,and if the bullet likes being close to the lands plus IMHO new brass fire forms better. if i dont see good results i start moving back from the lands. all of my load development is done at 200+ yds when i find a good load i confirm that load at 200yds then shoot a 5 shot group at 500yds if it shoot well at 500yds ill shoot a group at 800 or a 1000yds if its tight im done if not i go back to 500yds and tweak the load a little.

This is the method that I use

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Originally Posted by LongRange

i do the same thing stomp does with the exception of seating depth...i start touching the lands this tells me two things right off....pressure,and if the bullet likes being close to the lands plus IMHO new brass fire forms better. if i dont see good results i start moving back from the lands. all of my load development is done at 200+ yds when i find a good load i confirm that load at 200yds then shoot a 5 shot group at 500yds if it shoot well at 500yds ill shoot a group at 800 or a 1000yds if its tight im done if not i go back to 500yds and tweak the load a little.

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Since you're starting with the bullet touching the lands do you also start with your powder charge 2 grains under published max?

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Originally Posted by PaddyD

Since you're starting with the bullet touching the lands do you also start with your powder charge 2 grains under published max?

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Forget that question. I see you said you're doing the same as he does with the exception of seating depth.

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Originally Posted by Geo_Erudite

This is the method that I use

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+1!

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Originally Posted by PaddyD

Since you're starting with the bullet touching the lands do you also start with your powder charge 2 grains under published max?

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yes.

Another way. Perhaps to be used as an example.
An excerpt from this thread...
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...ess-30-06-load



150gr / .308" / 30 cal. bullets
IMR4350 - 49.0 to 57.0gr.

Why would you start so close to the top?
Try starting around 50.0. Load 4 rounds.
Then, load 3 of each - 50.5, 51.0, 51.5, 52.0, 52.5 - for a total of 5 groups of 3 each.
I'll bet you a nickel - heck, I'll even go a whole dime one of those 3 round groups will be the size of a quarter.
Providing you do your part to the very best of your ability.

Don't forget to let the barrel cool a little between groups.

This concludes this evenings OCW lesson in OCD Reloading.


PS - something I learned about my .308 barrel. It hates low end charges so, I start my load work up from the middle of the range & go up in .4gr increments. I'm finding the best accuracy & consistency near the top of the load range.

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Originally Posted by Geo_Erudite

This is the method that I use

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Originally Posted by mikgarus

+1!

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i know a lot of guys that like the OCW but personally its never helped me find a load...IMHO if you start with a bullet/powder/primer combo that most ppl are having good results with and shoot groups adjusting your charge your going to find your load faster.

Where I start - when it comes to seating depth and charges - it's my preference to not reload touching the lands. I know others do, but I don't. I start close to the lands - .010-.015 off them - and 3 rounds of increasing powder charges - to determine the same thing other posters mentioned - identify where pressure signs start showing. Then I've identified a maximum powder charge.

Some grouping and speed data has already been achieved at this point - if searching to improve - then start backing off the lands more. Watching results to get the tightest group, and lowest standard deviation on fps.

If you never get there - change components and start over. Be it bullet, primer, powder, cases.

I really start way before the points above relating to powder charge and seating depth - but it seems you were asking specifically about initial powder charge and seating depths. Start with research, bullet selection, powder selection, gun selection and prep, case selection/capacity/prep, tooling, etc.

Once in a while that first load - low powder charge - close to the lands - ends up being really good - and the disappointment sets in that I don't have to search for a load recipe - I fell on it like a knife, and just have to confirm it.

Never worry about shooting out a barrel - you can get another one.

But lately, I'm looking at changes to my procedures that start way before I even prime a cases. It's turning out to be an interesting evaluation of all sorts of steps I had adopted, looking at lots of changes so the end result has the "potential" to be better.

Accuracy is a journey, not a destination. Enjoy the journey.