Any value in testing new load…..

Without using a sled? I read a lot about setting up a new load, incremental increases in powder, seating near or on lands, this or that change and gauging the results. Is there the assumption here that everyone is using some kind of aiming/shooting device to help eliminate the human variable?

If I am shooting off sandbags at the local range, am I just wasting my time trying to improve accuracy through load development? Is any change I make and resulting difference that I might see likely just the result of a slight change in my technique due to more practice behind the rifle? Or weather, or perhaps the guy next to me shooting a muzzle brake on a cut down AK47 and splitting my head with every shot?

Just trying to figure this all out:confused:

thats a LOT of questions to answer LOL....
first let me ask you what type of shooting do you do?do they allow sleds?
how much trigger time do you have behind the riffle in question?
how accurate is the load your shooting now?

and yes small changes can make a big difference but the biggest factors will always be weather and shooter.

Can't answer any of your questions but I can tell what I do. While performing load development I shoot off bags both front and rear. This gives the the most stable platform so that I can see how the load performs. Once I have the load I want to shoot I will only shoot with a front rest, because that is how I will be shooting in the field. There are any different ideas on this subject and you will hear most I'm sure so pick the one that makes the most sense to you and enjoy.

As "Longranger" eluded to (may have said it out right) load development is well worth your time and money. When you find a load that the rifle likes it will be obvious. (I think)

I use a bipod and rear bag for load development, of course that's because: I target shoot that way 90% and hunt that way 99% of the time.
Basically it's my most confident position.
If a sled gave me better confidence while load tuning I would use it. I can't stand them myself, they just get in the way but you definitely want to eliminate as much variable as possible and if it helps you......use it.
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I take my initial load tuning and data gathering very serious, slow, calm, methodical, focused........So if the guy next to me was spraying lead and it was effecting me I would wait for him to finish and move on before trying to do anything serious. It's time consuming but worth it.
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AND......................"As "Longranger" eluded to (may have said it out right)" and olddav clearly did as well "load development is well worth your time and money. When you find a load that the rifle likes it will be obvious. (I think)"................Me to.

Time behind the gun? Let's just say it could be measured with a timepiece, not a calendar. But I learned to shoot before I was 10, and have always owned firearms. Hunted (waterfowl) for some years, But this is my first foray into target shooting with purpose. Mostly as a post retirement hobby, since I don't fly anymore and it's too frigg'n hot here in Texas to spend my afternoons building airplanes in a hot hangar! LOL

Yes, they do allow sleds at my local range. They provide sandbags too, and I prefer to shoot with front and rear bags and not use my bipod. The gun shoots! Probably a lot better than I do, but I do read and apply what I learn, and am improving in no small way due to you guys and your vast experience, not to mention willingness to share. So please except my many thanks for all your suggestions and critiques, and willingness to read my stupid questions:stupid:

Tuesday it's off to the range to try a new load with 8208XBR. Supposed to be less sensitive to temperature changes.

the reason i asked the questions i did is because i was wondering what type of shooting you plan on doing...benchrest,F-class,tactical matches,long range varmint ect...and asking about trigger time was because that is what makes a shooter better...IMHO your load development should be done like your going to shoot and i doubt you will be locking your riffle down in a sled every time you shoot it...yes you can use a sled to develop a load that will shoot 1 hole at xxxyds but once you take it out of the sled is it going to shoot the same? like D.ID 100% of my shooting is off a bipod and when testing loads i shoot off the bipod and a sock full of rice as my rear bag..once i find a load i then shoot off the bipod and ware a welding glove for rear support as we can not use any artificial rear support in our varmint matches but when i shoot in an F-class match i will use the same sock full of rice as my rear support as it is allowed.
as far as load development goes there are a TON of different ways to do it you just need to find what works for you. and like i said YES small changes can make big differences down range...primers,neck tension,seating depth,powder charge and thats just a few.another thing to think about is when you find a load that shoots how you want it to is it going to shoot the same when its hotter or colder or twice the humidity as when you shot that perfect group with that load....load development can be endless LOL and as hand loaders we are ALWAYS looking for better so that just adds to the endless part. your questions are not stupid at all and i think thats how most ppl learn to improve.
if your shooting a 308 i think youll like the 8208 theirs a lotta guys shooting it in our matches with great results...also keep in mind that ALL powders are temp sensitive just some are more than others.

I'm shooting a .223 Rem Model 12 BVSS. I picked the IMR 8208 XBR for two reasons. I needed another pound to fill the box when ordering, and 8208 was described as being specifically designed for the .223 load, so thought I'd try it. I have mostly loaded with IMR 3031 for the simple reason that the Hornaday loading manual permits better velocities with that powder than a lot of others, and so I ordered a few pounds just to get started. Most of what I've read since suggests that 3031 was not the best choice. 8208 might not be either, but trying to buy Varget and N133 is like trying to buy un-obtainium. I'd like to find a ball (spherical) powder to try. I'd like to find what Federal puts in the American Eagle 223 load.

As always, very appreciative of any suggestions.

As for type of shooting, I have no idea what the various types of competition are, what the rules allow, and what category my Savage will fit into. For now, I am happy just to gain some skills in hand loading and shooting. I guess that when I get to the point that I can consistently put 5 rounds in a dime size hole at 100 yds, I might consider competing, l could always use more trophies to dust off….hey wait! Can pot metal be melted down to make bullets? LOL

Fine grain powders (meter well through a powder measure) I have used in .223 include Winchester 748 and Hodgon 322 and 335.

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Originally Posted by JTCrl

Fine grain powders (meter well through a powder measure) I have used in .223 include Winchester 748 and Hodgon 322 and 335.

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You might also try BLC-2 and Benchmark. The latter not really a ball powder, but still meters great.

I learned a lot Tuesday! Shot several different load combinations at both 100 and 200 yds. Also performed a gradual tightening of the aft hold down screw on my model 12 BVSS .223 with groups fired at 3 different degrees of torque. Results indicate that it needs to be fairly tight (I don't have an inch pound torque wrench, so I went by feel) and I probably need to bed this action as the rear action screw never does feel like it hits a solid bottom.

I shot various combinations of 53 gn Hornaday V-Max, 52 gn Nosler Competition HPBT, with IMR 3031 and IMR 8208 XBR powders with two different COAL. I tried to keep the barrel fairly cool, and tried my best to ignore the two AR15's on my right that were burning through 400 rounds an hour with brass hitting the pavement behind them that was burning hot to the touch. Not kidding, I mean blister-you-in-a-heartbeat kinda hot! Didn't have my IR gun to check temps, but I'd be willing to bet they were well over 300 degrees.
Managed only a few fliers while flinching, but it took concentration :)

Clear winner was Nosler set .040 off the lands over 8208 loaded to 3200 fps producing 5 shot, holes touching holes groups at 100 yds. The V-Max was only slightly worse, but still mostly hole touching hole groups when loaded over 8208. Only problem I had was re-adjusting my scope back to 100 yards after the 200 yard groups. Did not immediately return to zero. Took a few shots to work it's way back in. Guess I'll have to shell out for a better scope and cry all over again. Can't say I wasn't warned :(

Educating your self while have fun is hard to beat.

I do all my load dev, zeroing, everything, the way I shoot. Everything I shoot is from the prone, off a bipod and rear bag (99.9% of the time anyway)