reloading dies

I have a nice reloading setup for my .45 ACP and want to start reloading .223 for my new 12 LRPV. Most of my equipment is Redding and I really like their dies.

;D

Loading bottleneck cartridges is new territory for me, and I'm especially stymied over the decision to get a full-length sizing die or neck sizing die. Redding has a few bushing style sets that look pretty nice, but I am still stumped. One of their neck die sets also has a body die. So....if you have to size the neck AND the body, isn't that the same as full-length sizing?

This will be the only gun that shoots these rounds, and I was under the impression that I would only need to neck size? If that's the case (no pun intended) then why does Redding include a body die in their neck sizing set?

???

I'm sure the answer will make sense when its explained to me, but just looking at their product literature doesn't provide any answers.

With a neck die only after a few loadings the brass will start to fit the chamber tight, and you will need to size the body back down.
I use full length bushing dies and set them so that they just barely bump the shoulder back.

Hope this helps. Steve

Sort of. At least I understand why a body die is included in a neck bushing set!

So if I'm understanding this correctly you can set the full-length die to be a little less "aggressive"? I'm still not clear as to why one would choose a neck die over a full-length die if you still have to re-size the body from time to time.

• Factory ammo has to fit any rifle's chamber. There are specifications for how big the chamber for a given cartridge should be, but there are tolerances or "wiggle room" where factory chambers can be slightly bigger or smaller and still take factory ammo OK. This "one size fits all" factory ammo sizing is what full-length resizing gives you.
  
  This is handy to be able to do for several reasons:
  
  
  *Semiauto, auto, pump and lever guns need full-length sized cases at all times in order to feed correctly.
  
  *Brass that was fired in another gun should always be full-length re-sized, at least for the first firing.
  
  *As was mentioned above, neck-sized brass for a bolt action needs to be full-length re-sized every once in a while, in order to feed and chamber well
  
  
  Neck sizing:
  
  For a bolt action rifle, neck sizing does just what it sounds like... Only the neck is re-sized, leaving the body of the case as a close fit for the chamber of the gun it was fired in.
  
  This is also handy to be able to do for several reasons:
  
  
  *The bullet is better aligned with the bore, increasing the accuracy potential.
  
  *The cases are not compressed and then stretched so much by sizing and firing, so the cases last a lot longer.
  
  *Since the case is not being compressed by the die then stretched by firing, it needs to be trimmed for proper length a lot less often.
  
  
  So new ammo or brass should be neck-sized after firing the first time, and thereafter until it starts getting a little bit hard to chamber or after three or four reloads. Then you should full-length re-size the brass and check to see if it needs to be trimmed to proper length. After firing the full-length re-sized and trimmed brass, you can go back to neck sizing for a while.
  
  Note that some shooters, especially those who do not go for maximum loads find that they can neck-size for a lot more than just three or four times. How often you have to trim and full-length re-size your cases directly depends upon how hot you load your reloads.
  
  I've noticed that the reloading manuals I have do not explain any of this very clearly... - I dunno why.
  

I think I understand better now. Since I have just this one rifle in this caliber (for now), I can safely neck size the once fired brass until it needs to be full length re-sized. Since the brass has been fire formed in MY chamber there is some accuracy potential there. If/when it becomes difficult to chamber I could either run it through the neck size die and then a body die, or I could full-length re-size.

Right?

So what is the benefit of a bushing type die compared to a standard re-sizing die?

with the bushing die you can buy smaller or lager bushings to set the neck tension where you want it.

Steve

So I think I've made a decision then! Going to pony up for the Redding type S neck bushing set, with the competition bullet seating die. That should do it I think.

:)

Thanks for the input everyone...I was truly lost.

Like you, I recently purchased a .223 Model 12 LRVP with a 1:9 twist, but went a slightly different way with the dies. I use a Lee Collet die to neck size and a Redding body bump die to set back the shoulder when it needs it. Like you, I also purchased a Redding Competition Seating Die which works great. So far I've used four different powders and a variety of bullet weights as reccommended in the various manuals and virtually all of the loads give 1/2" or better groups without fine tuning. These guns are extremely accurate and I have non doubt that I'll get 1/4" groups or better with a little effort. You might want to look into Dan Newberry's website on determining Optimum Charge Weights to guide you through the initial process. The Savage website also has a reccommendation for breaking in the barrel. Good luck.

You're not the only one who's said they use the Lee collet die. I've never used any Lee gear as it always felt cheap to me compared to other companies...but for $20 I may give it a go. The Redding dies look nice, but the added layer of complexity with the bushings might make this more involved than it needs to be (at least for now).

Thanks for your comments everyone...

Lee dies work great. I have sveral collet dies and really like them.

Steve

I got the Lee collet die and it appears to be well made. Time will tell, but for the $ this seems like a no-brainer to me.

Anyone else with the Lee die getting little score marks on the case mouth?

I use a Lee Collet Die and a Redding body die for all my loading needs. Another advantage is it doesn't work the brass as much making them alst longer. It adds a step to the reloading process but it is worth the extra effort. Before I was getting about 3 reloads using a standard FL sizing die before the neck split. Now that I use the collet die and body die sperately it seems to be a whole lot better.

Look at annealing also to get the most out of your brass as well. Anneal when you have to bump the shoulder and your brass will last even longer.

Dolomite

You can also set a full length sizing die and then unscrew it one turn (about 1/16th In.). This has always worked for me and you can always crank it back when you need to full length size. If you don't shoot a lot of maximum loads then everything is fine. When you decide to shoot the flamethrowers, use new or once fired brass full length sized. I remember reading in an old Lyman manual that the stretch of fully sized brass is easier on your action on maximum loads. I don't know if that is true, but it sounds good. I never try for the maximum loads and my brass lasts a lot longer. I think the idea of annealing the necks after several firings in sound.

The nice thing about .45 ACP brass and target loads, the brass lasts until you get sick of it!

I will buy the Lee 3 die set over all others if it is available. The collet neck sizing die is great!

The instructions that came with the Lee die are a little vague. I'm not sure how to tell if I have the die adjusted properly or not. Are there any rules of thumb I should be aware of, or is this going to be trial and error?

Do I need to start measuring neck tension at this early stage of my bottleneck reloading career?

:)

The little "score marks" are from the slits in the collet. Perfectly normal, A little brass is flowing in the voids of the collet. I turn my cases 1/8 turn (approx) and hit them a second time. Cant prove it does any good but it's a habit I recommend.

OK. Just wasn't sure if I was overdoing it or not!

:)

Thanks...

Lee instruction sheet says a 1/8th turn and second sizing on the mandrel will tighten the neck more. I polished my mandrel to reduced it about 1/1000th so the necks would be a bit tighter.