Are any of you guys using these dies? Particularly the micro seater?
If so what do you think about them good or bad. I'm thinking with an arbor press they'd be nice for load development at the range to cut back on several trips testing loads.
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Are any of you guys using these dies? Particularly the micro seater?
If so what do you think about them good or bad. I'm thinking with an arbor press they'd be nice for load development at the range to cut back on several trips testing loads.
you don't really need the microseater, you can use the shims to adjust to your seating depth, much cheaper that way, brownwells sells them, search for my handle and Wilson and arbor press.
for arbor press, I forgot the brand but get the one with the force dial. it was OOO when I ordered mine.
I have one with the microseater and it's pretty nice but all the rest of them aren't and just use shims. Some people complain about them being too slow but it's about the same as standard press seating.
So how do you guys like the dies? Do they seat accurately? Like I said im just thinking about using them for load development at the range to save time...actually in the hills by my house but would still save a lot of time running back and forth.
I use the Wilson .308 micro seater with a 21st century arbor press. Can't get any better than exactly the same seating every time. I only measure to the ogive.
BW
Thanks BW this is what ive read searching reviews.
I've been reading about them myself and ran across this in my research, pretty good article
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...ie-runout.html
You cant get a better seater than a Wilson inline seater. The micrometer is just a gimmick and I will never pay that kind of money when all you have to do is loosen a set screw and make small adjustments and through a little trial and error you will get it. Another way is to make a dummy round and loosen the screw in the Wilson and push the seater stem to touch the dummy round and lock it down and you are set.
well i ordered the micro seater from garf and sons this morning $96 bucks shipped and the 21st century arbor press $109 shipped ill post up after i use them...i also ordered a couple of the 21st century primer pocket plugs for water weighing which i thought was a pretty cool idea.
jon i agree that the micrometer is a gimmick but its a nice gimmick...all of my seating dies are micrometer dies and they save me a lot of time as i use a few different bullets in both my riffles and its nice not to have to reset the die to seat a different bullet...and ive read a ton of reviews saying the same thing you are that the wilson in line dies are hands down the best production dies made if they are all they say i will also order one for my 300wm. i also really like the fact that now i dont have to run home to load a few more rounds to verify a load i can just do it right where im shoot and fine tune it as well.
I also use a micrometer seating die (RCBS) and it's great for load development where I'll shoot a series of groups at different seating depths. Also when I switch bullets I just reset the die to the proper number for that bullet. No trial and error, just do it.
Never used the Wilson or arbor press (yet, it's on the list) but I know a lot of folks do.
Gimmick or not, the mic top works very well. I like to test seating depth in 0.003" increments, dial 3 marks and it's on the nuts every time. I can't justify the expense right now compared to shims but that's a different issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRange
One thing to be aware of, Wilson dies aren't made as loose as most threaded dies. If the case doesn't slip into the die by hand, send it to Wilson along a few cases and they'll hone it free of charge. I've sent in all but one and they come back spot on.
The quality of any bullet seater is measured by the runout of the loaded rounds. It doesn’t matter who the manufacturer of the bullet seating die is or how fancy the die may appear in the glossy catalog, or how much it costs. All factory die manufacturers produce seating dies to generic standards, including Wilson.
I shoot short range benchrest on a competitive level and know of several folks who do not care for the Wilson micrometer bullet seating die. They have used this micrometer die and have had problems with it. Many claim this die is not reliable in returning actual bullet seating depth to indicated depth markings on the seater micro dial. They also say that the adjustment of the micro top feels sloppy and unreliable. I have one and can conclusively say that it is sloppy compared to a better quality micro adjustable click die like the Jim Carstensen die.
I’ve had Wilson bullet seaters that were so sloppy that I could easily slosh the cartridge case around in the chamber with my finger. Others would not accept a cartridge case and had to be sent back to Wilson. They were replaced with Wilson “oversized” dies that were really sloppy.
Others that use the standard Wilson seater die have had problems with it in that they have had to purchase several top assemblies with stems to finally arrive at a combination of parts that produced straight loaded rounds. One guy claimed he tried four different tops and spent a couple of years before he could get his loaded runout less than .005”. I use both types of Wilson bullet seaters and prefer the standard model. The micro-top is a nice feature but it won’t make your groups any better. If you have a good dial or digital caliper you have everything you need to easily work with the standard Wilson bullet seater. Once you have settled on a bullet seating depth for the first time with any given bullet, measure the length of the top of the standard die (screw and stem) and record it. Then simply adjust the stem in or out to change the bullet seating depth and continue recording your caliper measurements for future reference. I don’t find this process inconvenient or difficult in any way. The micro-top speeds things up a bit, but not by much.
The best way to go is with a custom fitted bullet seating die using the same chamber reamer used to chamber your barrel. Any other seating die that you buy is going to be a crap shoot. Micro tops are nothing more than expensive unnecessary gadgets. Of course, none of this will help you shoot a deer at 2,000 + yards if you can’t reliably judge the distance and the wind, which most of us mortals cannot do at that range, or even half that distance. Except for you longrange, we all know you can hit a deer in the vitals at 2,000 + yards, you said so yourself right here
“Not to to start a **** storm but this is wrong on so many levels its not funny...first off factory barrels are very short as far as free bore goes because factory barrels are not chambered to shoot long heavy bullets...they are chambered to shoot short light bullets that move fast at short ranges so at 100 to 300yds it dont matter if its a 1" group or a 5" group its all in the vitals...now that same 3 to 5" group at 1000+yds that killed your buck turns into a 24" missed shot....and when shooting out at 800-1000-1760-2000+yds everything you do makes a HUGE difference... .2gs of powder will cause 2" of drop or raise at 1000yds and a primer will cause the same effect as well as neck tension OAL trim length brass capacity and on and on...most bench rest guy have thier barrels chamber around the bullet and powder they are shooting...the fuller the cade is and the closer the bullet is to the lands the lower the FPS spred and the better it shoots”
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...o-seat-bullets .
Finally, money will only buy you so much accuracy. You won’t gain it from the internet. It comes from experience from actually shooting, not reading about it, or relying on fancy reloading gadgets. Once you get good at shooting, longrange, you will lose interest in a lot of those gadgets you think are so important for precision shooting, along with a few other things. If you disagree or don’t believe me, fine by me, go to some matches or do some research, figure it out for yourself.
That’s all I have to say about this topic. I’m going to let this go wherever it wants to go from here.
Fair enough. The mic top I have is the older design and from lathe experience I guess I use them assuming there's going to be some backlash. In which case the accuracy is good or least good enough for a lowly factory rifle shooter.Quote:
Many claim this die is not reliable in returning actual bullet seating depth to indicated depth markings on the seater micro dial. They also say that the adjustment of the micro top feels sloppy and unreliable. I have one and can conclusively say that it is sloppy compared to a better quality micro adjustable click die like the Jim Carstensen die.
First off let me say you are 100% right on most of what you say...im not looking for accuracy persay im looking for a good die I can use in the field.
Now on to the rest...I never said I can shoot a deer at 2000yds it was to make a point and if you read that post NO WHERE does it say I can or have...I dont even hunt. Also you may very well be 10x the marksman I am I never claimed to be the best shot on the planet and most of what I know is from experience not the net. Do I have a lot to learn and improve on? You bet I do and I work on that just about every weekend.
Also im not sure what I did or said to set you off Fenrir but what every it was/is i apologize. I also shoot competitively.
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...ds/photo-8.jpg
Thanks TC I will check this when I get the die next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by TC260
Wrong thread .....
Heres the 21st century primer pocket plugs.
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...ds/photo-9.jpg
Well i got my 21st century arbor press yesterday and the LE wilson micro seater die today and must say both are very nice. The press is very smooth and very well built as are all 21st century products. The die is very tight and has no play anywhere that i can see feel or find....but....1x fired brass fits nice just like it should 2x fried brass is just a hair to big but l was ready for that as when i was researching all of this i read where this is common so ill call wilson in the morning and see what they say. I know they will open the die up for free but im wondering how many Xfired brass i should send them as i never FL resize i only bump the shoulder back .002 when the cases get tight. Ill post a few pics when i figure out why i cant upload pics to my bucket.
Also wanted to say that both 21st century and garf and sons are great places to deal with...great CS and very fast shipping from both!!
The pic finally decided to upload....
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...s/photo-10.jpg
You didn't get the force measuring seating press!
OH my!
21'st Century does my some fine stuff, I use their neck turner and a few other items.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Lol i looked at it but thought the first time it took a digger outta my truck it might not work so well.
SO......... Twice fired is tight??/ I only neck size also & I've had no problems with the die. Interesting!!! :)
BW
Yeah it even says on the instructions that the die may need to be honed a little. Are you shooting a savage or a remmy?
well as my charlie brown luck would have it LE wilson is closed today so ill give them a call on monday. i also think ill check my head space this weekend and make sure its still tight.
Checked head space this morning with the forster gauges and every thing still looks good there so i did some measuring on the 1 and 2x fired brass.
Base to shoulder are all 1.624.5 to 1.625 measured with the hornady head space gauge.
On the once fired brass the heads are from .470 to .471.5
and all of the twice fired cases are .472 with one case being .472.5
The cases at .470 fit in the die nicely...The cases at .471 fit but pretty tight..the cases at .471.5 and up are a no go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRange
Rem. 700 SPS 26" tube.
BW
I eather have a slightly larger chamber or a slightly small die...ill call LEW in the morning and send them a few pieces of brass and the die and have them open it up a little. I did play with it a little with some of the brass that fit and it seats within .000 to .000.5 run out and my redding die seats from .000 to .002 so thats an improvement. I actually dont even check runout any more for 2 resasons..1 i never seen any difference from when i did check and now and 2 i was using a hornady concentricity gauge when i was checking and found when i adjusted the run out it was changing the seating depth and or the neck tension and it caused me a lot of frustration and wasted time. I know the hornady isnt the best tool for this and yes i tried all different setting on the tip. My accuracy/consistency and repeatability improved when i stopped worrying about run out...if i was a BR shooter and or getting paid to shoot i might be a little more concerned but for the types of shooting i do ive just never seen a big enough difference to justify it.
Well i played around with the die and the press this morning as i had to bump shoulders back a little after i put my new PTG bolt body and bolt head in last week. Both work very well but they DO NOT like compressed loads. I seated 10 rounds that were not compressed and all 10 seated exactly where i had the die set. When i started getting to the compressed loads the head on the press would slide up before the bullet seated but i figured this as i read the arbor press dont do well with compressed loads.
I still need to send the die in and have it opened up a bit,i did talk to LEW about it and they said ill have the die back in a week tops so ill send it out next week if i have time.
Had our monthly 1000 yard shoot yesterday at BRPC. I lasted through 3 rounds of head to head then a guy cold bored me in the fourth. :( Oh well next month. LOL Had a good time. End of year party with burgers & dogs. They gave away a $2500 rifle at the end. Nice prize!!
BW
Yeah i need to step my game up next year...i shot an 11 at the last varmint match of the year but made up for it the following sunday when i shot a 567 in the 600yd open F...im going to do the 1000yd open F next year...im going to shoot my 300wm in one...they should enjoy the JP enterprise recoil eleminator with a high pressure load on the line lol.