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6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Is the construction of 6.5mm bullets stout enough for Elk.... I've use my 270 to take a number of elk, I've never had one walk more than 20-30 yards after taking one of them.... usually without heart and or lungs... I have recovered a few Barnes bullets from elk I've taken, shooting them head on at 1-200 yards, at the end of the diaphragm or in the hide on the far side of the hit....
Which bullets and what kind of velocity are we talking about? I'm trying to decide what to build next.... 300UMag? 300win mag?, I'm a big person, but always have been a little recoil shy and I've always loved a flat shooting long range bullet....
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
IMHO I believe that 165-180 grain bullets in the 300 Win Mag and 140 grain bullets in a 264 Win Mag will take anything on the North American Continent.
I would, however, prefer an A-10 mounted Vulcan for large brown bears.
uj
P.S. The Swedes have been killing moose with the 6.5 x 55 for 100 years and they have never thought to ask if it was enough gun.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jack
IMHO I believe that 165-180 grain bullets in the 300 Win Mag and 140 grain bullets in a 264 Win Mag will take anything on the North American Continent.
I would, however, prefer an A-10 mounted Vulcan for large brown bears.
uj
Here's a more portable version for ya ;D ! http://www.anzioironworks.com/20MM-TAKE-DOWN-RIFLE.htm
Wayne
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deserthunter
Is the construction of 6.5mm bullets stout enough for Elk.... I've use my 270 to take a number of elk, I've never had one walk more than 20-30 yards after taking one of them.... usually without heart and or lungs... I have recovered a few Barnes bullets from elk I've taken, shooting them head on at 1-200 yards, at the end of the diaphragm or in the hide on the far side of the hit....
Which bullets and what kind of velocity are we talking about? I'm trying to decide what to build next.... 300UMag? 300win mag?, I'm a big person, but always have been a little recoil shy and I've always loved a flat shooting long range bullet....
You didn't say which particular 6.5 cartridge that you're looking at? So a bit hard to say on the velocity. I built a 260 AI...but haven't chrono'd it yet...but info. from others...looks like 140-142 gr. bullets going @ 2950-3000 fps...but I have a long tube. I think my velocities are very close to the 6.5-284 and maybe the same or slightly higher than the 6.5 x 55 Swede.
I've got a friend that lives out west....shoots his elk with a .25-06...another with a .30-06. As you described...it has a lot to do with shot placement. If you're going to flinch with a .30 or .338 magnum....you're better off with something smaller. I think a high quality hunting bullet in 6.5 mm, with proper shot placement, would work. But this is just MHO. The big magnums, with heavy bullets....will obviously go through more bone etc....but I think shot placement tends to be king.
Wayne
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Is the construction of 6.5mm bullets stout enough for Elk.
Yes.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Good Gravy, Can you say, sore shoulder.... 20mm lol..... Dino's?, King Kong?, Godzilla..... Bullwinkle?
As far as velocity of say the 140gr class of bullets, about 2750-2800fps..... That's about max for the cartridge I'm thinking of... 28" tube shooting very small groups....
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
I used 142 SMKs and shot at a wheel rotor at 600yds and it penetrated cleanly thru on every hit with authority. The rotor is 3/8" thick on the outside and 1/4" thick on the inner. So I think it won't have any problems penetrating bones and hides.
btw, I also shot at the rotor with a 243 using 87grns vmax and it only dented the rotor. So I don't recommend using a 243. ;D
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
130 grain 270 has taken a lot of moose and Elk sized game. A longer 130 gr 6.5 Accubond is going to do the same and penetrate further I believe. I would not hesitate.
As a young man in none competition hunting areas I took a lot of elk with the 6mm Remington and 100 grain bullets. The 87 grain Hornady V max I believe is a varmint bullet? I would not fault the .243 for poor bullet performance. Still a bunch of people shooting elk with .243. I have a couple friends still doing it after 30&40 years.
Something to think about.
Neal
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbm
Quote:
Is the construction of 6.5mm bullets stout enough for Elk.
Yes.
+1
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
with good shoot placement no worries
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
A friend of mine killed more then 40 elk with a 256 Newton and claimed he never lost one. He was a very good shot and shot that rifle until it wouldn't hold a group anymore and had it bored to 30-06 and shot it for many more years.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Use the TSX. They're the same construction from .22 caliber up to .583 caliber.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
I would agree with above, but add use the tipped TSX bullet.
They open faster and at lower FPS.
Great bullets, but a little expensive.
I have used them from .224 up to 50 caliber.
The 50 caliber pistol bullets open up to about an inch in diameter.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
While I have never shot an Elk yet in the 2 or 3 years I hunted them, a few years back a bought a 243 chambered in a Win 760 pump gun.
The guy I got this 243 from said his nephew had used it to shoot 5 or 6 Elk over about a 10 year period and none had got away, but they were all shot at under 150 yards or so.
If I had to use a 243 I think I would just use the best bullets and best shot placement possible, I would rather use my 30-06 or 300 Win Mag with 165-180 Gr bullets.
So yes, I think a 6.5 with good bullets and shot placement should work fine.
Michael Grace
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
The Scandahovians have been hunting Moose and Raindeer with the 6.5 X55 for a hundred years and don't seem to have many problems.
uj
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
I guess i didn't quite make myself clear on the original question.... I assumed that bullets would have been placed in the appropriate spot to have a clean kill. I simply wanted to know about the 6.5mm bullet selection, ie., BC, SD, "who" made a good long range "hunting" bullet.
I knew that the 6.5's had a reputation for being great "paper punchers". I just needed to know if the bullet selection was "good enough" to pass through the tough skin and mess up the vital areas on an animal like the elk...
No ethical hunter should go into the field without being able to kill his prey quickly and humanely as possible.
More later....
Thanks guys
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Go with the Berger hunting bullets.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
The fifty year old Remington 140grn soft point Corelocks have always worked and things have only gotten better since then: Spear GSs, Nosler Patition, Nosler AccuBond, Hornady SST, Bergers....they all work work.
Elk do not require any special "Silver Bullet" to kill. As majestic as they appear, they're just a big cow with horns. Many of my friends here in Montana fill their tags each year with rifle and cartridge combinations as mundain as Savage 99s and 150grn Savage .300.
uj
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcloco
Go with the Berger hunting bullets.
+1
Go to the Berger web site and read. They have a very different philosophy relative to how a hunting bullet should behave when it hits it's target. Having observed the performance of their bullets on large game I am a believer.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
I've killed two (2) elk with Berger .277 140gr.. loaded hot..., This was several years ago when they were coated with the "blue" film. The only problem I saw with them was a small hole in and nearly the same size hole on the other side. Don't get me wrong the heart and at least one lung was damaged or gone with each bullet. However, both elk walked about 20 yards then died..... In the Cedar trees that's along way and it takes a while to find them.... (Hunting in Utah's Bookcliffs, between 7500' and 8500'). They only have to take one step to disappear. Over more than 50 years of hunting deer and elk, I would much rather have an entrance hole, all of the energy expended deep in the chest cavity with no exit hole....... They seem to take 1/2 a step and die on the spot.... Besides, I don't want to worry about were the bullet goes after leaving the animal....... I know I'm going to get a lot of comment on this, it's just the way I like to take an animal......
Sorry, (NOTE)
I miss typed, the bullets I killed these elk with were not Berger but Barnes..... hole in hole out..... This was in 98' -99' I think.. I use Berger VLD's for my 6.5 and love them....
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Berger bullets have changed since the "blue film days."
The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD design. The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate 2 to 3 before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13 to 15 long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that dont go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
A little sidebar to this conversation.
In the refridgerator I am currently marinating some little medallions of elk loin in Pinot Grigio, garlic, rosemary and black pepper. Later I'll roll them in bread crumbs, saute them in butter and EVOO and finish the sauce with more garlic, mushrooms, capers and some sour cream. That will make a nice supper with some egg noodles and a little salad.
This particular elk was shot in the neck by my buddy with a 100 grain .243 Hornady. I can assure you that it is very dead.
uj
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
I am currently marinating
How long dost thou marinate them?
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbm
Quote:
I am currently marinating
How long dost thou marinate them?
If you do it a room temperature about an hour...in the fridge about 3 or 4 hours. Doing it in the fridge gives you more time to finish the bottle of Pino Grigio
uj
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
wbm, I'm sorry, I miss typed before when I typed "Berger"..... I've never used Berger bullets for hunting. The Blue film bullets were from "Barnes"..... I don't know if it was because of the distance and high velocity (about 100yrds and 3100fps), but. There were .277" holes in and less then .5" out..... I found the second bullet (spent, near the animal, weight retension was better than 99%)
I do shoot Berger in both my AR-15 1-8 twist 75 Berger VLD (.224") and in my 6.5x47Lapua..... I love them, just never hunted with Bergers before..... Walt Berger was kind enough to furnish me with reloading data on the 6.5x47Lapua some time ago, I appeciated it a lot.....
Uncle Jack, Pardon my lack of knowledge, but with is EVOO?
Thanks,
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
It is more pungent and aromatic than regular olive oil. EVOO is just a shortcut we aloof and arrogant gourmet chefs use.
uj
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
I'm sorry, I miss typed before when I typed "Berger"..... I've never used Berger bullets for hunting. The Blue film bullets were from "Barnes".
No Problem!
One of the coolest "gotchas" ever was when Barnes took Berger to task over Berger's claims about Berger hunting bullet performance. Barnes did lots of testing with their bullets against the Bergers. Berger in turn took the results of the Barnes testing and used the data in their advertisements to demonstrate that the Bergers were better. Ouch!
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
"Pino Gringio", is that the same as "Ripple"? lol....
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
No, you're thinking of Pinto Gringo.
uj
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Sooo it's like Boone's Farm "Strawberry Hill" only more expensive? ;D
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Ferrari-Carano Pinot Grigio 750ml 2007
Sku: 1475614*
With its delicate aromas and delicious flavors, the Ferrari-Carano Pinot Grigio is a perfect, light, white wine for sipping or as an aperitif. Sister wine to the popular Ferrari-Carano Sangiovese-blend red wine SIENA, our 2008 Pinot Grigio offers green apple, citrus and white peach on the nose, complemented by clean, crisp honeydew melon and lime flavors. The refreshing mouthfeel is balanced by a light citrus finish that is delicate yet vibrant.
very expensive..... wow, Dessert Wine get it.... Desert-hunter......
I feel really bad, I quite about 10years ago.....
OK, it's really off topic......
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbm
Sooo it's like Boone's Farm "Strawberry Hill" only more expensive? ;D
No, your confusing that with "Cracklin Rosie"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOk9V0Rwlj0
uj
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
I think I was at that concert......
Fits your elk fixin'
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysxw7...eature=related)
MY ALL TIME HUNTING AND FISHING MUSIC -- As the late spring sun rises above the horizon, I start the engine, let it warm, one of my friends put the coffee on, I gently bring the boat onto plane, a 45 min run from "Good Hope Bay to Iceberg Canyon.,... By the time I pull into the mouth of the canyon, bacon is done, eggs are scrambled, hashbrowns are toasty and the toast has home made grape jelly ready... A "Bloody Mary" tops the morning off... I drop off of plane, start the trolling motor and head into the back of the canyon, looking for Crappie and Bass on the chart recorder.... Found a big school of Crappie, action lasts for hours, many bigger than dinner plates..... Deer down to the shore line, watering..... A late lunch among the Indian ruins, look but don't touch the pottery, arrow heads etc..... beautiful.... That's how the day starts, all the while listening to the "Moody Blues".....
Come to think of it, there weren't many time my old friend Paul and I didn't listen to the Moody Blues, even while elk hunting, he with his 300 Weatherby and me with my tiny 270 Win..... Guess who killed the most animals....
I loaded Paul's shells for him. With full power factory loads, he couldn't hit the proverbial broad side. When I started loading his rounds down to 30.06 velocities he stopped flinching and started hitting the animals he was aiming at.... He never did understand why, it didn't matter.... "HE" still shot a 300 Weatherby.....
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lazdg-eqmQ)
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
I have a 6.5x284 that has shot several deer and 2 elk with the 140 berger vld. Velocity is about 2900fps energy should be fatal out to about 1200yds for deer and 700-800yds for elk. My experience has been great with this combo both elk never took a step high shoulder shot dropped them in their tracks. Only down side to this combo is meat destruction when you hit large bone but this is better than tracking a lung shot elk for long distances. Good luck and remember accuracy and confidence in your gun are the most important factors.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
The 6.5x55 Swede has been successfully taking moose in scandinavia for over a century with results akin to that buffalo video. The swede does not offer spectacular velocities or trajectories but does offer good sectional density bullets that hold together and penetrate deep making for good elk medicine. People get caught up in the velocity game and forget all about terminal performance. That buffalo video clearly demonstrates the opposite is true.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Hey guys, I'm new here but thought I'd share my experiences with the 6.5's and elk. My son & I shoot 6.5x284's, topped with the 140 gr Hornady A-Max. I shot a spike bull elk here in Montana back in November, from 465 yds. Not only did he drop in his tracks with a high shoulder shot, but the bullet exited. I would say yes, they will work just fine for elk. ;)
Here's a picture of the beast.
[img width=600 height=450]http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n331/67Galaxie557/1119100759.jpg[/img]
Here's a picture of a recoverd A-Max from my whitetail buck. Shot @ 300 yds in his bed, and taken just below the throat patch. I found the bullet about 3" in front of the left hind quarter when I cut out the backstraps. Just over 30" of total penetration. It retained 53% of it's original weight. 8) :o
[img width=600 height=450]http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n331/67Galaxie557/Recovered140grA-Max53retention.jpg[/img]
Doug... 8)
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Hello folks! I guess I am the new kid on the block but not to hunting big game. I been doing so since the mid 50's. Now to answer the question about the recoil between the two mentioned calibers, .300 Ultra mag and the .338 Win mag. Two of wish I do own and shoot but that .300 Ultra magnum develops close to 42 pounds of recoil to the shoulder and that spells a Big OUCH!!! The .338 Win mag is not peaches in cream either in the recoil department comparing it to a 30-06 or 270 Win. but is certainly more tolerable than the .300 Ultra mag. My .338 Win mag in a model 70 Winchester rifle, with 225 grain bullets develops 35 pounds of recoil and 5 pounds of recoil is a whole bunch to most shooters.
j
The .300 Ultra mag develops almost as much recoil as the .375 H&H caliber, which many hunters choose for hunting those big brown type bears and critters on the dark continent kown as Africa. I myself use a .416 Remington magnum with a 350 grain Swift A Frame bullet on those bears.
Now the caliber in the 6.5 diameter is certainly large enough for elk if the bullet is constructed proper for that big game animal. A premium bullet in a 6.5/284 will drop the biggest bull on the planet under 400 yards and penetrate deeper than a 30-06 at that range, if the shot placement on the money. I personally use a wildcat caliber known as the .264/06 (I hate metrics) or 6.5/06 and I know that a 160 grain Hornady bullet will punch clean through an elk from brisket to the hams. It has a .328 Sectional Density and B.C. of .283, it is for close to medium range on big game.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
An old friend of mine kill a lot of elk with a 256 Newton and thought it was the best, he was however a very good shot which make all the difference. That was all before the premium bullets of today.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Killed a nice cow Elk last fall with a 96 Swede and a 140 Hornady IL. One shot thru the ribs, bullet stuck in shoulder bone on off side, made it about 30 feet.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
I watched a video of Jeremy from best of the west shoot a BIG bull at 925 yards using a 6.5/284.shooting a 140 Berger VLD, that bull took 3 steps and then tipped over backwards. The 140-grain6.5 has an SD of .287, SD's of bullets it might be compared to include 150-grain .277 (.279) 160-grain 7mm (.283) and the 180-grain 308 (.271). Given equal bullet construction and equal velocity, A bullet of higher sectional density will always penetrate better. Now, If you add in aerodynamic shape, higher SD will yield a higher BC. So an aerodynamic 6.5 bullet will offer some of the best downrange velocity retention and wind resistance.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
http://youtu.be/d2COAcHZRlI. here is a Youtube video of Wayne van Zwoll killing an Elk with a 6.5 creedmoor at 603 yards.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Considering that the 6.5x55 has taken Moose in scandinavia for a century it stands to reason that the 6.5 caliber is up to the task. The issue that I have is that most American shooters go with a light caliber and then choose a light bullet to flatten out the trajectory. This is probably why we have so many mixed performance reports associated with light caliber guns. The secret to good terminal performance is sectional density/bullet length for given weight. Solid core bullets such as the Barnes X have paved the road for lighter bullet performance. If I were going with a lighter caliber and wanted flat trajectory I would be beffing up my bullet with a solid core or bonded something or other.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Plenty of good 6.5mm game bullets out there....
I used my Tikka 6.5x55 last winter for a one shot kill on a cow elk
at 185 yds...140 Partition took her down....Berger...Hornady...Lapua and
even Norma also build some great bullets....take a look at the round nose 155 &
160s...these will go through an elk end to end.....I would stick with bullets
from 130 grain and up...elk are tough critters......
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Go to http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=420.0 and watch the video near the bottom of the page and can decide for yourself.
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
another vid from the same people,
sometimes you can leave the mega mag cialis caliber at home ;-)
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Re: 6.5mm bullets, enough for Elk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbm
Sooo it's like Boone's Farm "Strawberry Hill" only more expensive? ;D
that one is no longer available :'(
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Still trying to convince myself the 6.5's are enough for elk.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Uncle Jack
If you do it a room temperature about an hour...in the fridge about 3 or 4 hours. Doing it in the fridge gives you more time to finish the bottle of Pino Grigio
uj
After a bottle of that anything tastes good. lol
Ill add one comment to the interesting conversation about bullets.
Long range was mentioned. That will make a big difference in bullet performance.
A 100 gr 243 @100 yds and a 100gr 243 @ 500 yds aint the same animal.
same goes for all the rest. At some point their all hole punchers.