Full Length sized brass will not chamber

25-06, factory sporter barrel and action (trophy hunter) with a NSS recoil lug.
I set the headspace and shot it several times with no issues, I rechecked it-go gage will close, field and no-go will not close.

Brass is used (I can't get any new right now).

FL sized, brass wouldn't let the bolt close. I did the sharpie trick on several pieces and adjusted my sizing die down, the brass I checked after moving my die down would chamber (some were easier to close the bolt than others).
-I resized my batch (about 100 pieces) and trimmed them all to 2.484 (lyman reloading manual spec).
-loaded 20 for some new testing, and most wouldn't let me close the bolt, others were tighter than I felt comfortable with. Now I have to pull them apart, again.


Do I simply lower my sizing die down some more? Or do I have a bigger issue?
-Now that I have trimmed all my brass, am I going to be in trouble (brass to short)?
Is this an issue because this brass wasn't all fire formed in my chamber?

You may be full length sizing the brass but I don't think you have your die set low enough to actually "bump" the shoulder of the case back. You want to bump it back .002 at the most. Ive found that closer to .001 gives better results though.

That was my problem... somehow my die shifted...

How do I measure the amount it is bumping back? OAL length of the brass?

I think I have some plasitgage somewhere....

try these Hornady headspace gages

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479...ProductFinding

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

How do I measure the amount it is bumping back? OAL length of the brass?

I think I have some plasitgage somewhere....

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mic the spent brass against your resized brass with a good pair of digital calipers.

Do you anneal your brass? I used to have these problems. Brass that is hardened do to firing will at some point be hard to size and seem to spring back a little. thus fit tight in chamber. Annealing makes it so easy to size.

Toyoda

Lets take this from the top .

1 - What brand of dies are you using ?

2 - Are you setting the FL sizer to just kiss the top of the shell holder ?

3 - Or are you just screwing it down to be close ?

4 - Did you Chamfer the case mouth well Inside and Outside after trimming ?

5 - Are you lubing the Inside of the necks before sizing ?

stimpy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stimpylu32

Toyoda

Lets take this from the top .

1 - What brand of dies are you using ?

2 - Are you setting the FL sizer to just kiss the top of the shell holder ?

3 - Or are you just screwing it down to be close ?

4 - Did you Chamfer the case mouth well Inside and Outside after trimming ?

5 - Are you lubing the Inside of the necks before sizing ?

stimpy

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1.Dies are made by lyman, I am going to order some reddings and probably get the wilson chamber gage.

2 and 3. I did both. First I set it to touch the shellplate, then back out. I started turning it down to bump the shoulder a little more so the bolt would close. I could go down a slight bit more and probably get everything to chamber but I am afraid some of the rounds will have excessive clearance.
-Is this because not all the brass has been fire formed to my chamber?

4. RCBS trim mate, chamfer inside and outside after full length resizing.

5. Not explicitly. I layed a handful of brass on a towel and generously sprayed with dillion case lube, then shuffel them around.

I found a case that would let the bolt close easily, I had .002 clearance with the plastigage.
I have never annealed a case.

If it matters, my press is an RL550.
I took a piece of brass that would let the bolt close, lubed it inside and out, no change-bolt still won't close.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

I found a case that would let the bolt close easily, I had .002 clearance with the plastigage.
.
I took a piece of brass that would let the bolt close, lubed it inside and out, no change-bolt still won't close.

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Did you use Plastigage to check the resized case?


A couple suggestions. First, remove the expander then setup the die. Sometime when the expander is pulled back through the neck it pulls the shoulder forward.

Second, you really don't need a fancy setup to measure the shoulder bump ....
http://i41.tinypic.com/2e1yrfn.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/295x0eq.jpg

A 280 fired case and the same case with a .002" shoulder bump.

Instead of the holder and bushing use a socket or pistol case (38 SPL,357, 9mm) or anything that contacts the shoulder about midway. It doesn't matter what the numbers are, you're only looking for the difference in the length, case head to the shoulder, before and after sizing.

Try those things then let us know what you find.

Bill

Plastigage was on a resized case. The lubed neck was another case to make sure it wasn't pulling the shoulder and neck back up.
I never thought about using my L&L to check the bump, great idea!

I removed the expander ball, and checked the length on a case that was fired but not resized. Ran in through the die and I grew .001. I checked 2 more and they did the same thing.
I measured the case that I used with the plastigage vs the length of a case that wouldn't let the bolt close, about .005 longer. That was alot more than I expected.

So I guess my problem is my die is still set to high, lower my die until I get the same length on the case that works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

So I guess my problem is my die is still set to high, lower my die until I get the same length on the case that works.

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If its any help, for a 14 pitch die thread.......

1/8th of a turn =.0089"
1/4 =.0178"
1/2 =.0357"
1 full turn= .0714".

Bill

I can't adjust my die down any farther, hits my shell plate. I need to bump the shoulder down another .0045 to give me the .002 clearance I am looking for.
I already have a new set of dies on the way, otherwise I would just take .010 off the bottom of the die.

I will give an update when I get the new dies setup, but I really appreciate the help. I never thought to use my L&L to check the amount of bump. I knew I had a die setup problem, I was just afraid to keep turning it down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

I can't adjust my die down any farther, hits my shell plate. I need to bump the shoulder down another .0045 to give me the .002 clearance I am looking for.
I already have a new set of dies on the way, otherwise I would just take .010 off the bottom of the die.

I will give an update when I get the new dies setup, but I really appreciate the help. I never thought to use my L&L to check the amount of bump. I knew I had a die setup problem, I was just afraid to keep turning it down.

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My Lee dies for 223 are the same way. They hardly bump the shoulder back. I thankfully haven't had any feeding issues, even in the Service Rifle AR15.

I am amazed the height difference between my lyman shell holders and the Hornady ones I just got for my hand primer seater

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

I can't adjust my die down any farther, hits my shell plate. I need to bump the shoulder down another .0045 to give me the .002 clearance I am looking for.
I already have a new set of dies on the way, otherwise I would just take .010 off the bottom of the die.

I will give an update when I get the new dies setup, but I really appreciate the help. I never thought to use my L&L to check the amount of bump. I knew I had a die setup problem, I was just afraid to keep turning it down.

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One thing you have to watch, shellholders aren't always created equal. Although they're supposed to have a .125" deck height I have a few that measure as short as .123" and some as much at .127". The shorter the deck height the more a case can enter the die. Its something you may want to check to make sure the die is the problem. I kinda hate seeing you buy a new die only to be back where you started.

Bill

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillPa

One thing you have to watch, shellholders aren't always created equal. Although they're supposed to have a .125" deck height I have a few that measure as short as .123" and some as much at .127". The shorter the deck height the more a case can enter the die. Its something you may want to check to make sure the die is the problem. I kinda hate seeing you buy a new die only to be back where you started.

Bill

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Or you could get a Forster Coax press and never need a shell holder again. [emoji4]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vince

Or you could get a Forster Coax press and never need a shell holder again. [emoji4]

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I might agree, but I assume he doesn't have a Coax so its a mute point and doesn't address his immediate issue.

Bill

Setting up the FL sizing die to achieve the proper case headspace is an on-going problem in most of the reloading forums I read. I started with, and only have, a Lyman manual and the use of a HS comparator is mentioned but not stressed as an essential piece of equipment; don't know about the other manuals. I think this should be highlighted to a greater extent, since sooner or later you will have headspace problems if you do not use one; it would save new loaders a lot of headaches to have this impressed upon them in the beginning.

My press is a Dillon 550, I'm not open to the idea of shaving the shell plate.

If the new dies do the same, I will turn it off the bottom of the die.

Did you try turning your die down further? If you only adjusted it down to the plate without running a piece of brass up into it you may not have it adjusted down far enough.

You mention you have to pull them apart..If this is load ammo
maybe your OAL is too long causing the bolt not to close..Better
check this first..Surprised no one caught it before...Welcome to
the club of mysteries...