Hornady 53 gr .224 bullets

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07-18-2014, 05:55 PM
cranebird

Hornady 53 gr .224 bullets

Getting back to the 53 gr bullet. It has a listed .290 BC rating. The bullet is long for a 53 gr. type.I chose to go with a .223 AI in 1:12 twist, 26" barrel to basically shoot this bullet and to try pushing 50 gr bullets at or near 4000 fps.(yes,scope eye is my Hero)What I didn't consider is the bullet length for a 1:12 twist. Will it stabilize at slower velocity through a 1:12 twist ? I know it is a issue with the 1:14 twist, even in 22-250 so I can rule out pushing it faster with the .223AI to help stabilize it. The Hornady manual notes that the 53 gr V Max will not stabilize in a 1:14 or slower twist Bbls.Doesn't velocity effect the BC ?I've got all sorts of questions rattling around in this pea brain...Thanks in advance.
07-18-2014, 08:23 PM
foxx

I do not have a 1:12, but I am assuming if Hornady says "no" to 1:14 or slower, then 1:12 should be alright, or else they would have said "no" to 1:12 or slower.

Right?
07-18-2014, 09:51 PM
foxx

Also I do not think velocity has anything to do with stabilizing the bullet. Slower twist allows the same load to shoot faster because the high twist rifling drags the bullet down a bit as it is trying to go down the barrel. That's not to say you can't drive a fast-spinning bullet at high end speeds and be stable. So in other words I got the feeling you are over thinking this and are worried about issues that don't exist. :) I am famous for it. .
07-18-2014, 10:25 PM
scope eye

I have a 12 twist 223 AI and it can stabilize 69gr sierra's, so I would not worry about the 53gr, you can always make up for slower twist to stabilize a bullet with higher velocity.

I can even stabilize those same 69gr Sierra's in my 22-250, and that has a 14 twist, they only thing is you have to send them with authority.

Dean
07-18-2014, 10:59 PM
earl39

Quote:

Originally Posted by scope eye

I have a 12 twist 223 AI and it can stabilize 69gr sierra's, so I would not worry about the 53gr, you can always make up for slower twist to stabilize a bullet with higher velocity.

I can even stabilize those same 69gr Sierra's in my 22-250, and that has a 14 twist, they only thing is you have to send them with authority.

Dean

That's not stable that's just not enough time to wobble.
07-19-2014, 07:05 AM
scope eye

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl39

That's not stable that's just not enough time to wobble.

Earl, I had never thought of it that way, you may be on to something, and if my 220 swift 16 twist can stabilize those 53 you have nothing to worry about, I am going to attempt to stabilize those 69gr in that swift, I am going to shove powder up there wahoo until the cry uncle.

Dean
07-19-2014, 08:37 AM
cranebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxx

I do not have a 1:12, but I am assuming if Hornady says "no" to 1:14 or slower, then 1:12 should be alright, or else they would have said "no" to 1:12 or slower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxx

Right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxx

So in other words I got the feeling you are over thinking this and are worried about issues that don't exist. :) I am famous for it. .

Yes and no. When you stay with their recommended listed charges ,I am with you on that but I was intending to stray from the listed and try a slower powder selection in search of a safe pressure load but nearest full case capacity that I can get without compressing the load.........I am definitely overthinking it.
07-19-2014, 09:07 AM
cranebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by scope eye

I have a 12 twist 223 AI and it can stabilize 69gr sierra's, so I would not worry about the 53gr, you can always make up for slower twist to stabilize a bullet with higher velocity.

I can even stabilize those same 69gr Sierra's in my 22-250, and that has a 14 twist, they only thing is you have to send them with authority.

Dean

I never thought of going up in bullet weight to increase the velocity with the limited powder capacity... a whole new can of worms......
07-19-2014, 12:56 PM
foxx

Yeah. Now my head is spinning like maybe a 1:9.
07-19-2014, 01:02 PM
cranebird

Yep,I was told to buy a 1:9 twist.Did I listen ? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo.Next time though I got a 1:9 in mind.
07-19-2014, 01:13 PM
kevwil

I was listening to a podcast the other day where Bryan Litz from Applied Ballistics & Berger was a guest. He talked about his testing of the idea that faster twist rate means slower velocity. He said the velocity drop for a .308 between 1:12" twist and 1:8" twist was about 3-4 fps. To me, it sounded like Myth: Busted.
07-19-2014, 01:22 PM
foxx

I believe that. So the only reason left for slow twist would be to be able to shoot light jackets bullets that might otherwise blow up?
07-19-2014, 01:35 PM
cranebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxx

I believe that. So the only reason left for slow twist would be to be able to shoot light jackets bullets that might otherwise blow up?

Pretty much sums it up but they don't always blow up going down range, sometimes you get clean bullet holes and then the sporadic grey puff in the air mid range and no clean bullet hole. It takes you a second to figure out where your bullet went, then the little grey puff of what was thought to be smoke registers....
07-19-2014, 02:53 PM
earl39

Quote:

Originally Posted by cranebird

might have to use a pepper grinder on 4064 extruded powder to pack well enough in the case..... should be a blast.

Bad ideal there as that will change the burn rate. Some broke kernels are not a big deal but grinding it down is a big deal.
07-19-2014, 03:08 PM
foxx

Earl you missed Crane's last statement... "should be a BLAST."
07-19-2014, 06:14 PM
cranebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl39

Bad ideal there as that will change the burn rate. Some broke kernels are not a big deal but grinding it down is a big deal.

I thought it to be so absurd that it would never be taken seriously but yes a very bad idea...Thank you for correcting me.

Ivan
07-19-2014, 06:21 PM
earl39

It's not that you would but someone might read it and not see the intended sarcasm.
07-19-2014, 07:16 PM
cranebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by earl39

It's not that you would but someone might read it and not see the intended sarcasm.

I completely understand where you're coming from and thank you. I wasn't thinking, I'll try not to make the same mistake again.Thanks again

Ivan
07-20-2014, 10:02 AM
scope eye

Quote:

Originally Posted by cranebird

I never thought of going up in bullet weight to increase the velocity with the limited powder capacity... a whole new can of worms......

I am not quite sure what you mean by that, and I reread my comments, what I was getting at was if you can stabilize a 69gr with a certain case capacity and twist, you should have no problem with sending anything lighter.

Dean
07-20-2014, 12:28 PM
cranebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by scope eye

I am not quite sure what you mean by that, and I reread my comments, what I was getting at was if you can stabilize a 69gr with a certain case capacity and twist, you should have no problem with sending anything lighter.

Dean

I understood what you were saying and yes my statement made no sense at all when I'm reading it now. I was thinking that it takes less powder to get heavier bullets started and apparently they stabilize at lower velocities better than the lighter bullets or no ? I was thinking if you increased bullet weight, instead of messing with the 52,53 gr bullet and jump to a 60, 62 gr bullet selection and look for a accurate combo within the selections there with this new barrel. The velocity is going to drop a bit with the weight increase but it isn't necessary when poking bullets out at 250 yards, accuracy is what I need to achieve. My whole concept of what I wanted changed after ordering this barrel thanks to Dansavage. It what it is. I should just order a 6mmBR barrel and build a f class rifle and keep this .223ai to poke bullets at coyotes with which was what I intended to do with it in the first place. Thanks for your help. Odd the .224 is either 52,53 gr match or on up to 68,69 gr match and next to nothing in between.
07-20-2014, 02:21 PM
Luke45

53s stabilize in my 1-12 20" 22-250 no problem, according to "ballistic calculators " it's not stabil but you have to take to account the plastic tip adds a lot of length but the center of mass stays far bak in the bullet.
07-20-2014, 03:30 PM
cranebird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke45

53s stabilize in my 1-12 20" 22-250 no problem, according to "ballistic calculators " it's not stabil but you have to take to account the plastic tip adds a lot of length but the center of mass stays far bak in the bullet.

Yes, it's .824" long where a 50 gr V Max is .776" but like you said the length is in the nose....