vlp vs. fcp-k shooting technique

After shooting my new .260 Shilen barreled VLP and my .223 FCP-K this past weekend I have noticed that each gun acts extremely opposite of each as far as shooting technique is concerned. My .260 (which, by the way, kicks a lot harder than I had expected) will lay down the law if gripped tightly and pulled hard into the shoulder. Shooting free recoil, however, makes things go south. My .223, on the other hand, shoots free recoil like crazy good, but when you grip tight and pull into the shoulder, the groups go all over the place.

What are the typical causes of this. I like shooting free recoil because it is more difficult to be consistent when tight gripping the gun. Also, free recoil with the .260 tends to make the scope touch the nose and eye with some force.

How do you guys do it? Any suggestions on finding consistency with the tight grip style? Kind of a hassle having to treat 2 guns so differently.

#1 your scope is too close, readjust or change bases if necessary.
223 is a light recoil caliber and the 260 is medium it almost sounds like the 260 is making you a little recoil sensitive, get the scope away from your eye& nose then give it a try.

I have had 300 Win Mag and 7mm RUM bench guns that I totally burned the throats out on from a bench, so I don't mind recoil at all. However I didn't shoot either of these guns free recoil. I am a bit surprised at the recoil of this .260. Everything that I had read about them said they had very light recoil, and maybe they do compared to a .300 Win Mag. I could put my Leupold 8.5-25 on it to gain some eye relief, but I hate to take it off of the .223. I may just do a little testing of groups with the .223 using the tight grip style. I'm sure it boils down to my technique, I'm just trying to do it one way or the other.

You could try a EGW rail for $40 and keep the scope you have, just move it forward a little.
I'm not questioning you shooting abilities just trying to help you figure out why there is a problem, I know if the scope is coming close I would be flinching a little. I have 2 half moon scars over right eye from a scope that was to close.
It does hurt and yes it leaves a mark.

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Originally Posted by rjtfroggy

You could try a EGW rail for $40 and keep the scope you have, just move it forward a little.
I'm not questioning you shooting abilities just trying to help you figure out why there is a problem, I know if the scope is coming close I would be flinching a little. I have 2 half moon scars over right eye from a scope that was to close.
It does hurt and yes it leaves a mark.

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The Nikon on this gun has very little eye relief. If I move the scope forward, I'll just have to move forward to have a full sight picture. My Leupolds, on the other hand have enough eye relief to accomodate this gun, and I may have to put one on it. BTW.......I have an EGW base on this gun already. Thanks for the replies.

There are a lot of variables in this equation, for me what your experiencing makes perfect sense, and I would not expect different. To start, the harder (or more) that the rifle recoils the more that the rifle moves, and the more the rifle moves the more that the imperfections are magnified.

Second, what are the twist rates of the barrels ? The higher twist rate combined with the bigger bullet, and the heavier recoil, it is going to torque the rifle harder and farther in the rest.

Third, believe it or not you ARE AFFECTED by recoil, no matter how much you THINK that it doesn't bother you, psychologically it is. You stated that the gun had more recoil than you anticipated, this is in your mind,and is effecting your shooting.

Fourth, what kind of rest are you using, but more so how does the rifle fit the rest? If the rifle doesn't fit the rest, or if they are not properly set up properly, the rifle in recoil will move in other ways than back, the more the recoil the more it will move in other directions.

I would say that the problem with eye relief is do to you having a variable powered scope and turning the power up, Try turning the power down. Most scopes the eye relief get shorter as the power is turned up. Also as mentioned some scope have shorter eye reliefs that others. Moving the scope forward will not fix this problem, if you move the scope further forward you just have to lean over the gun more, the eye relief will not change.

I would also say that the plastic stock 10 FCP K would be more sensitive to pressure (Hard grabbing or pinning) do to flex. (Even if it is an accu-stock) I have found that the accu-stocks still flex in the grip area, the critical part of the stocks failure.

Something else to consider one rifle may have a harder bolt lift that the other, or a heavier trigger. Difference is rifle may have contributed to the rifle moving more in the bags that the other. Another thing that comes to mind is creature comforts. Are you more comfortable with one gun set up over another? If your not comfortable, you just will not shoot well. You need to have your feet flat on the ground, you need to be at the proper height, (Not too high or low) you want to be at the gun not leaning to far over, just comfortable.

Shooting styles can change from rifle to rifle, or shooter to shooter. Some shooters change shooting styles do to conditions; a shooter may choose to shoot free recoil when conditions are good, and then choose to pin the rifle hard when conditions are switching.

In closing, as mentioned there is a lot of variables, hopefully something I have mentioned may spark in your mind, and help you to identify your concerns.

Thanks for the reply 82 boy. I believe that the plastic stock flex idea could be right on the money with the FCP-K. As for the recoil of the .260, it isn't the 'free lunch recoil' that the benchrest sites claim. It kicked less when the gun was a varmint barrelled .25-06 with 115gr. bullets, but it still has nothing on my .300WM Sendero shooting 180s. My attempt at free recoil shooting it is gonna have to go. I'll just have to figure out what this particular gun likes. Also, your point about the trigger is right. The .260 trigger is somewhat heavier than the FCP-K. That .223 with 69gr Noslers and the muzzle brake will literally not move more than a half inch in any direction by touching nothing but the trigger. It is impressive accurate for a stock gun.

I use a Caldwell Rock front rest and a leather V-type rear bag. What do you use. I'm not convinced that the Rock rest was worth paying for. Seems like I used to shoot better with regular sand bags on the front.

Thanks again for the reply.

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Originally Posted by steveinwv

Thanks for the reply 82 boy. I use a Caldwell Rock front rest and a leather V-type rear bag. What do you use. I'm not convinced that the Rock rest was worth paying for. Seems like I used to shoot better with regular sand bags on the front.
Thanks again for the reply.

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I use a Hart rest, with a windage top, and Protektor bags. I had a Rock and a Rock BR , I can not say I was impressed with either rest, but out of the two I liked the rock better. The rock is a bit light and tips easy, when pinning a rifle. The rock BR was just a bit sloppy in fit.

I would say you could tame some of the recoil to your 260 by adding weight to the stock. What you can do is take the recoil pad off, and drill two holes a foot deep, that a couple of pieces of 1/2 in round conduit pipe would slide in, then take the pipes make them around a foot long and fill them with lead, insert them into the stock and replace the recoil pad. If you don't want all the weight you can just slide the tubes out and your back to about the same weight as stock. My 6x47 lapua has this and weighs in at just under 17 lbs, it don't move at all, when recoiling.

Have you considered installing a good muzzle break on the rifle?

Update...........Sometimes we ask questions that we know the answers to just to here ourselves talk...........that is annoying................and sometimes we ask questions that we know the answers to because we have lost what we used to know. 82boy reminded me of a few things that I used to practice, but just haven't done lately.

1) The question of the twist rate reminded me to concentrate more on the grip and less on the pressure to the shoulder. Today I left work early and went to the range with the .260 and the .223. I concentrated on the grip only on both guns. The .223 is ridiculous at 200yds shooting sub-1" groups every time. Seriously...........every time. Sure, you could make it shoot worse, but you'd have to MAKE it shoot worse. The .260 however responded well. Tight pistol grip, slight pressure to the shoulder, and good pressure on the trigger with robotic follow through. 10 round, 1", 200yd group, and I have to admit I was skeptical of every shot. I couldn't back it up because I was out of shells.

2) Follow through. Pull the trigger with solid pressure. When done, if the trigger is still pulled tight by your finger and your eye stayed open throughout the recoil, then you have done the best that you can.

Thanks to 82boy for reminding me of the basics. I'm glad I asked a stupid question.



BTW...My CZ .22 Mag shot 2 sub-1/2" groups at 100yds with the new 6-18 Leupold VX-II that I put on it yesterday out of 2 tries. I ran out of shells for it too.

Glad I could help, and it all worked out for you .