savage 111 TH XP 30-06 scope sight way off

Well I decided to take my brand new 111 out to the range, got there and thought to myself " I should be able to shoot some nice groups at 100 yards and then from there... Boy was I wrong, shot 5 and not a single target hit. I had inspected the scope mounts and everything was nice and tight. Brought the target back to 50 yards, and started from there. Aimed at my center target, hit the bottom bullseye. Hmmm.. I took a few more shots and sure enough at 50 yards it was off 6" so when aiming at the center bullseye the bullet hits the bottom one. I started to do some adjustments but I had only taken a box of 20 so it will have to wait until next time I go. Any one have issues like this? Isnt the rifle and scope supposed to be pre-sighted? Forgot to mention, Mine comes with the Nikkon scope and accu-trigger.

the scope will be bore-sighted, not 'sighted' or zeroed in.... we have the pleasure of doing that after buying our new rifle ....

Defoxer has it right. At most, the factory does a quick-and-dirty boresighting; the rest is up to the buyer. Your experience is an example of what taught me decades ago to begin sighting in at no more than 25 yards, then move out for fine-tuning.

I had a similar experience! Not that i was hoping for it to be zeroed! But after a nice long day i was able to zero to 200 yards

Has anyone thought to tighten all the screws first, then boresight, then go to the range and zero it in, why would you waste ammo at 25 or 50 first ?

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Originally Posted by hank440

Has anyone thought to tighten all the screws first, then boresight, then go to the range and zero it in, why would you waste ammo at 25 or 50 first ?

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Not sure what you mean, when you boresight a rifle is not uncommon to be out of a regular target size paper. Always shoot at 25 or 50, just one shot at 25, adjust, one shot at 50 adjust and I should be in paper at 100 yds as long as you understand what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by gentzleon

I started to do some adjustments but I had only taken a box of 20 so it will have to wait until next time I go. Any one have issues like this?

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It should only take two shots to be on paper at 100.

Hang a target at 25 yards, look through the bore and align adjust the scope so they're on the same spot. Fire one shot then while holding on the POA (point of aim) then adjust the scope to the bullet POI (point of impact). Move to 50 yards, fire one shot and make any corrections then go to 100.

Bill

If you use a Maximum point plank range method for a say 6inch target, assuming your using a 180gr load with a muzzle velocity of 2700fps and a BC of 0.35;

Running the info through a Ballistics calc you will find the MPBR is 262yds, the zero range is 224 yds and the first trajectory crossing is at 24yds. This means that a dead on hold at any range from zreo to 262yds will always fall within a 6 inch zone (appropriate for the larger animals, 4 inch may be useful for smaller animals) the true zero is at 224yds and if you zero the scope by setting a target at 24yds, you will also be zeroed for a target at 224yds.

As BillPa said; hang the target at 25yds(it depends on the velocity, BC and scope height, may be 23, 26) but theoretically you could then move the target out to the zero range and bypass the 50 and 100 distance....

In this the 21st Century the age of computer ballistic caluclators, inexpensive but accurate range finders, repeatable turret scopes, ballistic reticle etc...I thought the MPBR method was a thing of the past :)

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Originally Posted by hank440

In this the 21st Century the age of computer ballistic caluclators, inexpensive but accurate range finders, repeatable turret scopes, ballistic reticle etc...I thought the MPBR method was a thing of the past :)

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Agree! And thats why i have Nikon bdc and their app! I am no pro rifle shooter! In fact in my 23 years of owning guns... My savage that i just bought a month ago is the first scopped rifle that i got! First day i was shooting 550 yards no issues! Set target at 50 yards! Inputed info on app... Told me where to zero on the 50 yard, adjusted ! Put target on 200 yard and boom! Zeroed! Then i used the bdc for all the rest of the range! All the way to 550 with a 3x9x40 scope and never having to move turrets after setting at 200! Love technology

Thats like saying you dont need to learn to drive manual because everyone drives auto today, but when your in the drivers seat and there's a funny looking shifter that doesnt have P-R-N-D markings....

Each to their own, but i think its important to actually learn how your rifle shoots instead of blindly following tech... estimating the range, using visual cues, actually thinking about the trajectory with your rifle/scope combination....

Or just rely on tech, electronics and hope it all works and comes together when theres a nicely sized Sambar thats come into range... oh he'll wait for you to read the range, maybe a wind reading too, enter into your iphone app, set the clicks....look through the scope...

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Originally Posted by defoxer

Thats like saying you dont need to learn to drive manual because everyone drives auto today, but when your in the drivers seat and there's a funny looking shifter that doesnt have P-R-N-D markings....

Each to their own, but i think its important to actually learn how your rifle shoots instead of blindly following tech... estimating the range, using visual cues, actually thinking about the trajectory with your rifle/scope combination....

Or just rely on tech, electronics and hope it all works and comes together when theres a nicely sized Sambar thats come into range... oh he'll wait for you to read the range, maybe a wind reading too, enter into your iphone app, set the clicks....look through the scope...

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Lol!
I agree that is good to know all the principles ! But in the heat of shooting an animal... I wont be making those calculations! I know what 200 yards looks like and 250, 300 etc! And i have a crosshairs for each one! The mins that somebody takes to realize that they need to shoot at 375 and click click click there turrets ... I put my bdc on target and boom! I know how to calculate! Like i know doing math but i rather use a calculator if i need a accurate number on the spot on a long calculation... Thats just me... Shoot ducks! That will give you a different perspective on calculating! You react! Aim! And shoot! Your skills will make you shoot ahead etc... Not saying your way is wrong... AT ALL! It is actually more accurate than mine perhaps! But technology is there to help... Just sayin

I had the same problem with my .308 Trophy Hunter XP. If you search around, you will see others have also had trouble with the nikon scope that comes packaged. I went to the range with it twice and I never could get it to stay zeroed. I believe they're just not built for higher caliber rifles, maybe more suited with a 22 or something. I sold mine on ebay and got a Nikon Buckmaster.

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Originally Posted by DgTerrell

I had the same problem with my .308 Trophy Hunter XP. If you search around, you will see others have also had trouble with the nikon scope that comes packaged. I went to the range with it twice and I never could get it to stay zeroed. I believe they're just not built for higher caliber rifles, maybe more suited with a 22 or something. I sold mine on ebay and got a Nikon Buckmaster.

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Here is todays result at the range with my 11/111 TH xp on 30-06! Stock nikon scope! http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/10/a3yqanyt.jpg

Thats 4 shots at 100 yards! Those were my first shots today... Pulled rifle from case and shot! The nikon scope kept the zero amazingly! Yes ... When they mount them they do a crappy job... Once everything is tied down! It woks great!

Btw according to Nikon the scope that comes with these rifles are basically the buckmaster 3x9x40... I called them for turrets and caps and they said that it is basically the same scope...

I don't laser animals I range things around where I think Bambi's granddad is gonna step out first thing, I take my wind reading way before hand, I have the range on my turret not the dope , I set the turret to 250 the start usually its faster, so its just spot,zzzzzzzzpppp bang, dead deer and I practice it often LOL my hunting buddy has a Nikon with that BDC reticle, I may try that out this year, like it's said above it's fast.

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Originally Posted by hank440

I don't laser animals I range things around where I think Bambi's granddad is gonna step out first thing, I take my wind reading way before hand, I have the range on my turret not the dope , I set the turret to 250 the start usually its faster, so its just spot,zzzzzzzzpppp bang, dead deer and I practice it often LOL my hunting buddy has a Nikon with that BDC reticle, I may try that out this year, like it's said above it's fast.

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It is handy for sure... Especially for wild hog! Shot has to made fast...

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Originally Posted by hank440

Has anyone thought to tighten all the screws first, then boresight, then go to the range and zero it in, why would you waste ammo at 25 or 50 first ?

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Just because you bore sight a rifle doesn't mean it will be able to hit a target @ 100 yards...heck, the variance in bullet weight/brand/type can provide dramatically different results as well. I typically start a 25 yards as well...and find I actually use less ammo starting this short and moving out....

Well I must be doing something wrong then because it usually takes me 3 or 4 rounds to zero it perfectly. I stand corrected.

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Originally Posted by emtrescue6

Just because you bore sight a rifle doesn't mean it will be able to hit a target @ 100 yards.

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Bore sighting isn't an exact science. At best they generally only show the barrel isn't pointing north and the scope west.

I have 31 pieces of 30-30 brass a guy fired last year without putting one hole in his target at 100 yards. He would shoot, adjust the scope, shoot, adjust, shoot. I would have saved him some time and money but he was too busy instructing his two buddies how it sight in a rifle! :p I don't know if he ever got it sighed in or not. I asked him if I could have the brass and went home.

Bill

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Originally Posted by BillPa

Bore sighting isn't an exact science. At best they generally only show the barrel isn't pointing north and the scope west.

I have 31 pieces of 30-30 brass a guy fired last year without putting one hole in his target at 100 yards. He would shoot, adjust the scope, shoot, adjust, shoot. I would have saved him some time and money but he was too busy instructing his two buddies how it sight in a rifle! :p I don't know if he ever got it sighed in or not. I asked him if I could have the brass and went home.




Bill

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My favorite kind of shooter to be next too!

I love sitting next to those guys as well....never seems to be any shortage of them either. A friend of mine (who is a range officer at my club) and I sat and watched a guy with a 300 WBY last summer play out the same scenario...and ammo is a heck of a lot more spendy in this case! We tried to offer some advise early on (he was adjusting the opposite direction he shoulda been on his scope) but he was to busy trying to show off his "skills" to a friend....I did manage to scoop up nearly 40 300 WBY cases for my brother though...LOL

Got it all set up now.....lets see how far and accurate I can go now... I have been reading about turrets for the scope...I am new to the turret thing....how good are they? Might be my next purchase....

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Originally Posted by gentzleon

Got it all set up now.....lets see how far and accurate I can go now... I have been reading about turrets for the scope...I am new to the turret thing....how good are they? Might be my next purchase....

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Turrets are a great way to guarantee that at some point, when you have a critical shot to make, you will have adjusted for some other shot, forgotten to readjust to zero, and will miss. Or, that by constantly fiddling with them you have prematurely worn out the scope's adjustment mechanism -- and miss.

I personally dont use turrets... Not my favorite...and they can be pricey and for my purposes useless

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Originally Posted by robert2286

I personally dont use turrets... Not my favorite...and they can be pricey and for my purposes useless

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I also haven't found them useful...have 2 scopes with target turrets (a Swift and a Nikon) and wouldn't buy them again....wasted on me. I grew up on duplex reticles and learned holdover and self adjustment...tried, can't break 30 years of habits.

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Originally Posted by emtrescue6

I also haven't found them useful...have 2 scopes with target turrets (a Swift and a Nikon) and wouldn't buy them again....wasted on me. I grew up on duplex reticles and learned holdover and self adjustment...tried, can't break 30 years of habits.

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Yep! My buddies and i were shooting his 7 mag with his leupold... At some point he moved the turrets! We couldnt even hot the target! He forgot that he moved it 50 inches ...

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Originally Posted by robert2286

Btw according to Nikon the scope that comes with these rifles are basically the buckmaster 3x9x40... I called them for turrets and caps and they said that it is basically the same scope...

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Do not get confused with the "basically" statement. I had my own fight with Nikon about it. I got my Nikon scope with a 10xp package and the scope broke in less than 25 shots and this was with a 22-250 gun. Not a real kicker. I sent it back and insisted on getting a real buckmaster back but they wouldn't. They told me the combo scopes and buckmaster scopes are not the same quality but I would get a qood working scope back. The guys I hunt with all they use is buckmasters And I yet to see one fail and they shoot 7 rem mag.

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Originally Posted by Nandy

Do not get confused with the "basically" statement. I had my own fight with Nikon about it. I got my Nikon scope with a 10xp package and the scope broke in less than 25 shots and this was with a 22-250 gun. Not a real kicker. I sent it back and insisted on getting a real buckmaster back but they wouldn't. They told me the combo scopes and buckmaster scopes are not the same quality but I would get a qood working scope back. The guys I hunt with all they use is buckmasters And I yet to see one fail and they shoot 7 rem mag.

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You know... One thing i did notice... I bought my combo at AAFES... Military installation and the nikon scope on it is not the same as the one that they have in Dicks ... Mine doesnt have the lock ring for the adjustments of eye relief... Also mine looks more streamline and didnt have the lens covers... Mine has work great... 80 shots of 30-06 with no issues... Perhaps i got lucky with mine... Knock on wood