The atf site won't work for me. Can I legally ship an action to a FFL dealer "without" a copy of their FFL ?
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The atf site won't work for me. Can I legally ship an action to a FFL dealer "without" a copy of their FFL ?
Yes, run their license number through the EZ check for validity and to verify shipping address. Once the ATF site is working for you again that is.
You probably already know you can't use USPS, that is license to license with a PO form 1508 and copy of both licenses. I always send a copy of my ffl by snail mail or a jpeg on an email they can print. Technically all the ffl needs is your physical address to log it. By default, you have to use a common carrier anyway and if you declare THEY want a copy of the FFL license. Email takes seconds to receive and print the ffl.
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
Where did you get this information? It is absolutely false.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawneeB
I agree with KRP, but have to say it's been a couple years since I used them. Sounds like UPS is the shipper that just keeps making it harder for gun people.
Huh?
UPS is super easy. Box it and take it to the terminal, or have a brown santa come pick it up at your house.
Totally correct. The last action I had to ship the local postmaster argued with me that I couldn't ship any firearm. After I showed him a printout of the information in the above link and a copy of the receiving FFL, he had me wait for over 20 minutes while he checked it out in his regs book and even called someone (he never said who) and then came back to me and said I was right and apologized for the wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by KRP
I'm lucky to have a good crew at my local post office, except for one a few years ago. Shipping a barrel to NSS and was told I couldn't ship a firearm. I politely(more or less) stated that it wasn't a firearm and even if it was I could ship it. I then politely(more or less) explained they should understand the rules involved, not give false information to customers, and bring someone else to the counter to help me. No problem with the replacement help...and they still work there.Quote:
Originally Posted by bootsmcguire
I do still get questioned, usually making sure I'm not selling something that someone there wanted.
Exactly right boots.Quote:
Originally Posted by bootsmcguire
To be on the safe side you should request a copy of the FFL from whom you're going to ship it to. KRP was correct in stating that you could look up the validity of whether an FFL's license is up to date. You may want to make contact with the receiving FFL to let them know you plan on shipping your action to their residence. Update them with shipping information that would have in the tracking of your action.Quote:
Originally Posted by RP12
As far as the USPS thing goes, I have read the bylaws on both the ATF's site and the USPS site. No where does it state that you as an nonlicensee can't ship a long gun or shotgun using USPS mail. Now a pistol, that's a different animal altogether.
Thinking out loud here, but if one had a Striker pistol it can not be considered a "shotgun" or a "long gun" but it is what it is.... a pistol. Shipping would require the certain paperwork if using USPS.
If people are going to site and reference certain code they should also site information that pertains to non dealers. Dealers whom are required to fill out certain forms when they themselves are the ones responsible for the shipping have different responsibilities than those of us who aren't.
May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
Krp. What I said (if you read the whole post) is the same as what is in your link.
Is a rifled action a firearm by definition? Can it be concealed on your person? Is is "any other firearm"? Yes x 3, then it must be mailed by a licensee.
Handguns — e.g., pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person — are nonmailable UNLESS mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, or a licensed dealer of firearms,
A slight derail, but I understood it was legal to ship a firearm to a fellow resident of your state, a FFL I was talking with says he just got a letter from the ATF that you can ship a firearm to yourself, but not anyone else.
INTRASTATE transfers to someone who lives in YOUR state is perfectly legal. No need for an FFL and that is per ATF regulations since the "firearm" does not cross state lines and therefore is NOT under ATF jurisdiction. Yes you can ship to YOURSELF ACROSS state lines as well, that has always been legal to do. The rules state that no one can open the package at the other end but yourself. Example, you live in Florida and are going on a hunting trip in Montana, you package up your rifle and address it from and to yourself and send it off, then it is waiting for you when you get there and YOU open the package. I was an FFL dealer for many years and currently hold a C&R FFL and have shipped many firearms during that time. All this information is available for anyone to look up on the ATF web site.Quote:
Originally Posted by sha-ul
Yes I know, but I couldn't pull it up, hence the reason for the post.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by AZ_GUN_NUT
That was meant more for the others that would tell you that you couldn't do it... I know you knew that... LOL :cool:
My bad. :p
I haven't gotten that letter yet, as an FFL I will.Quote:
Originally Posted by sha-ul
Law as it stands until I get it.
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
ATF regulations and PO regulations are not always in jive. PO can determine what they will or will not ship. Ammo for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_GUN_NUT
Why I said "you cannot use usps" in the paticular case of "can I ship and action" and what some are missing, especially one person who called bull on me is the bare receiver RP asked about. It IS "any other firearm" it is a "firearm" by definition, "it can be concealed on your person" annnnnd it can be either a rifle or a handgun if not in a rifle config no matter how it was "born" and which FET was paid on MFG.
I've been doing this all my life, first ATF book, 1972. Licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer, licensed SOT during those years.
Now I explained it. If anyone wishes, mail anyway you like. I won't answer any more threads on the subject, interpret whatever floats your boat.
If you truly want an interpretation, ask the ATF and get it in writing, signed.
IF the receiver was registered as a RIFLE or SHOTGUN then the part about "it can be concealed on your person" is invalid. It does not matter if it is a complete firearm or a stripped receiver.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawneeB
You are confusing AOW's with a registered stripped rifle receiver. As an FFL you should know better than that.
432 Mailability
432.1 General
The following conditions apply:
- Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as “handguns”) are nonmailable in the domestic mail, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1and DMM 601.11.1.
- The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1and DMM 601.11.1 or 601.11.2.
- Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted, as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.2.
- Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90—618) and
18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 432.1b and c.
We weren't discussing ammunition were we?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawneeB
You're still missing "other firearms" AZ, any receiver, even a suppressor is a "firearm". It doesn't matter what it was made as, like I said. Asd yes I know what an AOW is, AND maybe you should know any "other firearm" and "any other weapon" are not the same thing. Don't be telling me what I should or should not know.
As I said before. ASK THE ATF. Anyone should know better than to ask about Fed law on a firearms forum and I should know better than to try and answer. I won't be back to this topic.
Thanks everyone. I have shipped it.:thumb: