strange groups?

i have a 110fp 223 which i bought last year from a old gentelman i have known for years(my first savage) along with the rifle i recieved the origional 50 round box handloads that the gunsmith loaded for him,there were 16 rounds missing,unbelievable. since that time i have put it in a duramax wich i piller bedded the rear action screw and glass bedded,fully.i have put about 100 rounds looking for a load .it loves the 52gr.sierra,over26.5 grs. of 748,has shot many .5 groups since then.now the problem.the last two times out the first 5 shot groupe was one ragged hole, the next 5 were outside 3/4 inch, the next 5 were over an inch i went home pulled the action,checked the bedding,all seemed fine ,carefulley installed everything ,checked all screws torqued.two days later went to the range and it done the same thing.same box of hand loads.my friends think the its barrel heat,but i dont thing thats it.this is driving me nuts any thoughts would be welcome.

It sounds like you are well versed in the most common issues. My first thought was the barrel might not be fully floated and as it heats up it is touching the stock somewhere along its path. Action screw torquing and tightening sequence would have been another thought. Did the barrel by chance have some amount of bedding get under it? It is definitely an odd bugger.

With all things you have done my thoughts go directly to the optics. Loose base screw or a ring screw or worse a slightly bent tube from misalignment. If the barrel passes the folded dollar bill test, go right to your optic.

Pics of the groups would help. Assuming at 100 yards?

"How" the groups spread is very important - i.e. vertical, horizontal....

How long did the barrel cool between shots?

Is it truly stress free bedded or just bedded. Is anything ahead of the lug bedded? How much of the lug is bedded - bottom, sides, front?

Scope bases stress free bedded? What rings are you using? If not Burris signature - are they lapped?

What scope?

Is the rear tang floated?

Any change in your shooting position? - cheek weld alone can change a group that much - I've seen guys do it over and over.

We need more info - gives us everything you can.

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Originally Posted by bonsaiman

i have a 110fp 223 which i bought last year from a old gentelman i have known for years(my first savage) along with the rifle i recieved the origional 50 round box handloads that the gunsmith loaded for him,there were 16 rounds missing,unbelievable. since that time i have put it in a duramax wich i piller bedded the rear action screw and glass bedded,fully.i have put about 100 rounds looking for a load .it loves the 52gr.sierra,over26.5 grs. of 748,has shot many .5 groups since then.now the problem.the last two times out the first 5 shot groupe was one ragged hole, the next 5 were outside 3/4 inch, the next 5 were over an inch i went home pulled the action,checked the bedding,all seemed fine ,carefulley installed everything ,checked all screws torqued.two days later went to the range and it done the same thing.same box of hand loads.my friends think the its barrel heat,but i dont thing thats it.this is driving me nuts any thoughts would be welcome.

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How long between shots/groups? If it is a sporter barrel, it could very well be a heat related issue. How many times have you been to the range with this gun as it sits now? If these things happen multiple times, I don't think it is optics, as they would not come back to a state of being right on, if they are wandering after a string of shots, at least I would not think so anyway. If it is not heat related, there is tension on some part of the action/barrel somewhere.

Does it do the same thing clean or dirty?

I had a similar problem with a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 in CAl 270. The original stock had been carved up with a moto tool and the muzzle had a ding in it. I had the barrel crowned and picked up a used Winchester factory gun stock at a gun show for $25. Everything seemed to fit great and look good. When I went to the range the starting shots looked good but then the groups opened up. I took my scope, a Bushnell Scopechief, to the nearby factory in Pasadena, California. They checked it every way possible and deemed the scope to be in good order. I was ready to give up on the rifle and took it to my local gun shop. He noticed tight places in the stock and suggested that he could relieve it and it might shoot better. He didn't want to do a glass bed job for fear of ruining the collector value of the rifle. After his work, the rifle shot fantastic groups and my troubles were over. I have since been a big fan of Bushnell Scopes because of how they stood by their product even though it years old.

I was a fool and sold that rifle a few years ago. It was the standard and was somewhat heavy. I didn't enjoy carrying it in the field and most of my hunting was out west in the Sierras at the time.