Has anyone shot a BMAG with a Boyds stock yet?
Results before and after?
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Has anyone shot a BMAG with a Boyds stock yet?
Results before and after?
Hopefully a few of you Boyds owners will be getting out there this weekend...
The weather doesn't seem to want to cooperate, sometimes it's cold, sometimes windy but most of the time it is bothQuote:
Originally Posted by Yankee
Boyd's stock slated to be delivered this Wednesday, will post results just as soon as I get to the range which hopefully will be the following day. Cannot wait to get rid of the flimsy synthetic stock.
I got a chance to shoot some with the new stock, about a 1" group at 100 yards but it was only 3 shots as I wanted to try the o ring with the new stock. Adding the o ring pushed my shots high and only 2 of 4 hit the target but they were fairly close. The shots after removing the o ring were a disaster(25 gr ammo) and it may have been the barrel moving back into normal positionQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy B
I tried the O-Ring mod and my groups actually got worse. Like 5-6" at 100 yards.
I had high hopes for the 17 WSM, but it's not going to work out without filling my stock or replacing it. I don't have the time or desire to deal with it, i bought a rifle and got a project.
The stock, mine had trigger problems, ejection problems, never shot better than a 2.2" group at 100 yards, with some groups getting as big as 4.5" (and that's with no wind).
I'm getting rid of the gun. Ordered a CZ 455 Varmint in 17 HMR as a replacement.
:mad2:
For those of you who don't think there is any hope for you poor shooting Bmag, even with a Boyds stock........There is hope !
In my case, the accuracy issues are all related to barrel flex and barrel harmonics. Installing O-rings on my original Bmag showed the first signs of improvement. Installing a boyds RH stock greatly improve the looks but did nothing for the accuracy by itself. Also, Boyds stock design does not allow the o-rings to work properly as many have found out.
Click on the link and you can see how well my Bmag shoots with a few simple modifications to address the flex and harmonics.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...=522897&page=7
I got the rimfire hunter and it didn't make a bit of difference with the accuracy. It did make the gun look nicer however the magazine well is not cut correctly on my stock and it was a ***** to get the magazine to seat well in the stock. I hear Boyd's might have a change to the cutout in their cad design?
Anyway, I chrony'd the bullets in 20 gr and 25 gr and their is a wide extreme spread. on the 20 gr my high was 3109 and a low of 2946. That's an extreme spread of 163 which means alot on a 20 gr bullet. my groups are almost always stacked on top of each other. At first I thought it was breath control but it's not, it's the fps of the bullets. If you want better groups you need to break in the barrel with a few hundred rounds and weigh your ammo to get consistent results.
on the 25 gr I was getting as high as 2710 and down to 2571. Thats an extreme spread of 139 which is massive on a 25 gr bullet. It will change the point of impact considerably.
Question: Are your groups stacked on top of each other?? or are your patterns like a shotgun pattern? If they are stacked then it's likely the ammo (or could be your breath control). Weigh your bullets and you'll see the inconsistency. It's almost like Winchester/Olin just retreaded the concrete nail rimfire cartridge making machines and instead of inserting a nail they insert bullets.
The Chrony proves it.
Received my Boyd's stock and discovered that the bbl assy isstill closer to the left of the foregrip than on the right. That being the case it would appear that the mounting points are not properly aligned on the bbl assy. The new stock required some sanding to make the bbl free floating. This has turned into a project and IMHO I believe Savage has truly dropped the ball on this gun. Due to the weather here in CT I still have not made it to the range and will wait until I have an opportunity to fire the weapon before following gsperaz's ideas. It also appears as though Winchester rushed to get their .17 WSM cartridge out into the market as many are reporting problems with the ammo.
I ordered my Boyd's stock on Feb 9th. I just got notice today that it has shipped. Should be here by Tuesday. I am really looking forward to getting it installed. I went with the Green laminated thumb hole option despite it being the one that seems to have the most problems. Hoping they have them all sorted by now.
Irish
no improvement at all for me, barrel still running up left side, sanded it down to clear. My best groups off a bench @50yards are 2" most are atleast 2.5". I tried 20gr and 25gr, free floated as well as with a shim at the end of the stock with slight upward pressure on the barrel.
I guess you never used a rimfire nail gun. Nails are not inserted into the rimfire cartridge...nails are loaded in the end of the nail gun and the cartridge is used to drive the nail.Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenlnoe
I fired mine the first time and accuracy for the first 3 shots was good, then it threw one high and one low. Could be ammo, but I shot it a good bit with both 20g and 25g and it was worse than with the black plastic stock. I took it home and disassembled and found that the bbl was hitting the stock on the left side and on the bottom.
I sanded the bbl channel with a dowel until the bbl was fully floated. Back to range. Accuracy was worse. Much worse. My Sav shot very well when stock. 0.600" at 100yds to 1.200" at 200yds were best groups and slightly bigger typical. Acceptable to me. It would walk some as the bbl got hot even when new. Now it is all over the place. I placed a folded piece of shotgun shell plastic between the bbl and the stock at the front and it seemed to improve, so I took it home and inserted a pillar cushion made from three layers of molding tape. This is under the bbl about 1" from the front of the stock. It places some upward pressure on the bbl but is still flexible.
Back to the range with high hopes, I test fired only to find the groups were widely dispersed in the vertical. I am talking 2-5" at 100yds. Far worse. Feeling a little frustrated and wondering what to do next. I have read Gasperez fix and just have not yet had the time to go down that route. Before I do, I think I will 1st try a stiffer button under the bbl. Old timers used to use a pencil eraser. I think I may go with a thick stiff square of neoprene gasket material under the bbl near the front or bed the first 2" of the bbl at the back. This would place significant upward pressure on the bbl and the bedding should better stabilize the action. Since my gun once shot acceptably well, I am hopeful we can get back to that. This gun is far more sensitive to changes than I expected. I almost sold it last weekend. I love the round and the new look with the stock, so I think I will keep at it til we get it right. I did have to fit the action to the stock so the safety works good, had to open up the mag well some also. Mag fit is still too tight but I wanted to be careful. It does click into place but is hard to get out. Some careful sanding should fix that. It is not a drop in. More of a custom deal.
Irish
Hello Irish,
You are correct about how sensitive the barrel and the barrel support can be. I have been working on different barrel support /material in order to shoot both the 20's and 25gr. The slightest change in pressure throws off the groups, as well as temperature. By that I mean shooting on a warm 65 degree day combined with the barrel heat changes the firmness of the rubber support as compared to a 40 degree day. Look for a material that is heat stable, I see some guys using roofing rubber which maybe a good option. I have not tried any but its on the list. I'm also working on a barrel band to help with consistent barrel support pressure.
I also agree, if your gun shot well and consistent at one point you should be able to dial it back in. Although it can be time consuming and frustrating at times. Especially when you shoot 3 to 5 rounds dead nuts, reset the target, reload................AND its all over the place again !
Its a great cartridge for sure, but a real rifle challenge. Good luck, keep us updated on your progress.
Irish, I was one of the first to get this rifle. I posted notes about using pieces of rubber fuel line in the front of the factory stock. One piece on each side, with a 45 degree cut. That way it centered the bbl and added significant upward pressure.
It did not help the accuracy one 'iota', but it sure did change the POI.
I was going to try the o-rings.
I've decided to wait until my SS BMag shows up before I waste any more time with this one....
ron
Regarding the barrel support and material selection, any thoughts on how much upward pressure is enough? My knowledge of harmonics would lead me to believe that any contact with the bbl should alter the harmonic frequencies of the bbl, but I also suspect that the upward pressure needs to be sufficient to remain in contact from the point of ignition thru the exit of the bullet at the muzzle. On my 1st try with the support, I opted for less pressure. But the automotive side molding tape that I used, while seeming to be temperature stable, it is also tacky which I am not really fond of, as I would rather the bbl be able to freely move along the tape as it heats, expands, cools, contracts, and vibrates.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsperaz
At the moment, I think my next run will be to add one more layer of tape, increasing upward pressure and leaving the thermoplastic cover on the top layer which keeps it from being sticky against the bbl. I hate wasting all my ammo on bench tests like this. Each trip to the range is eating up 1/2 a box or more. It would be different if I could go the the store and buy more but the only ammo I have seen for sale in the last three months has been two boxes of 25g at a gun show and the dealer there wanted stupid high prices for it.
I am open to ideas if anybody wants to chime in.
Irish
I tried out my bmag for the first time with the rimfire hunter stock with a piece of bicycle innertube as support and got a 4 shot group under 1" at 100 yards after shooting a few rounds at 80 yards to see how much the innertube affected my zero
I think rubber like material works best. Today I tried some polyethylene tubing that I shaped to fit the bottom of the barrel. I also made it so I could adjust the upward pressure with out disassembly. Unfortunately I was not able to get any good groups at 50 yds. I was able to change the POI up to 3'' with this adjustability but no consistent groups. I thinking the rubber provides 2 benefits, support and vibration dampening. I will be going back to a rubber like type support material. But now I'm back to square #1 since I removed my original support pad.
When I get mine I will try some neoprene rubber that I have from another project.
I finally got to mess with my new stock. I had to sand around the magazine area to get the magazine to click into place each time. I cut some of my neoprene rubber by hand and inserted it, the barrel would flop all over the place before I did this and now it won't move. It also helped center the barrel in the stock also, because it was leaning to the left before I did it. Taking it back to the range when it stop raining hoping for next weekend.
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/a...7.jpg~original
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/a...6.jpg~original
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/a...5.jpg~original
http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/a...0.jpg~original
PS. If you want some of this rubber for free then pm me so we can figure out how to get it to you. You pay the postage.
Mine shot much better this Sunday but I had problems with the Ammo. I had to send several rounds through it twice before they would fire. I sent one through three times and it did not fire? Had three good marks from the firing pin.
Finally got a day I could go shoot my Sporter B-mag. actually didn't do as bad as I thought it was going to. shot it in 3 shot groups( 25grainers ) and gave the barrel about 5 minutes to cool down in between
guessing I had about a 10 to 15mph wind from the northeast and I was shooting due west to east. this is at just short of 100 yards
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps714c3717.jpg
I added some more rubber material at the front of the stock but have yet to fire it cause I robbed the scope and put it on my big barrel B-Mag.