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Curious:
Any of you guys actually clocked Federal Premium Match in 308 168 SMK. :confused:
Im gonna eventually chrono them myself but as usual...Im curious as to what other shooters have seen.
The box states 2650. I just cant see Federal giving false data...maybe Im wrong
Reason Im asking is beacuse I tried some out on my Model 10 FCP-K and will be the 1st to admitt....there trust worthy.
I planned on running some thru my new barrel for break in and low and behold......:adoration: go figure
I've found most factory match ammo is pretty close to what is stated. Most is tested from a 24in barrel, so I usually add 50 fps for my 26in barrel then punch it all in to my ballistic calculator. After a 100yds zero I usually take it straight out to 890 with the scope settings from the calculator than punch whatever adjustment I had to make on top of there's into the trajectory validation tool for a more precise fps estimate. I then run tests on targets between 220yds and 887yds (particular to the range I go too) to verify the new fps settings. Has been very successful without the use of a chrono.
After all that I use this setup when I shoot in the highpower Long Range steel matches at the range. As long as my settings are putting me on target with first round hits minus the wind call being off at times I see no reason to go through the trouble of running a chrono. As long as it gets there accurately and repeatably, I'm satisfied!
roger that:
Im planning on attempting to copy there load. Ive done it before but in a different caliber,s with positive results.
Im currently at the tail end of load/ladder development on 175smks so the chrono is already set up for quick assisment of speeds for loads that have shown accuracy and consistancy.
Im gonna load some 168,s with chrg weights Ive calculated trusting that the listed data is at least close.
My gut feelings tell me that the data is correct....course.....Ive been wrong before but what the heck.
If you are talking about Federal Gold Metal Match (FGMM), I have chronograph it dozens of times. In my 26" 308W I get a consistent 2700 fps for the 168 SMK. I use it as a reference any time I question my chronograh with reloads. Good stuff with a proven record. Tim
From what I have read, the spec for FGMM 168 is 42.8 grains of IMR4064, with the 168 Sierra Match King in Federal brass. The info was posted by Dan Newberry who seems to be pretty well up to speed on loading data.
thats the exact powder Im going to be using but...yikes...that 42.8 behind the 168 s (to me) is going to be pushing it faster than 2650. thru my ladder test. I pushed a 175 smk 2774fps using 43gr of 4064 out of a 24" tube @ 4200 ft elevation.Quote:
Originally Posted by nso123
according to the data on the box..its 2650
if my math and calculations are correct...then 41gr of 4064 "should" develop speeds of mid 2600,s
I really like there version of 168smk,s...if I had the money?..Id pick up 1K worth to keep me going for awhile, but I dont,,,so i reload......besides...its fun
You have to take into account that there velocity is probably calculated at sea level. You will get a higher velocity at greater altitude.
roger that.....sea level is great for increased performance in vehicles but not so for the flight of a projectile,s.Quote:
Originally Posted by nso123
Ive got some loaded up but the weather here in southwest texas has much to be desired.......gonna have to wait till saturday to reach the tail end of my load development
Happen to know what your S.D. And E.S. were with them? I'm asking purely for curiosity sake. I shoot nothing but my handloads but hear great things about the FGMM ammo all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiny68
Maztech - I have those numbers at home. When I make it back this weekend I will did you the spreadsheets. I will be pooled data. I too typically only shoot reloads. I would typically shoot 3-5 rounds of FGMM with my day of reloads just as a reference. I ran most of it through the chronograph. Tim
Got a buddy who owns a collet bullet puller. Gonna pull one apart and have a look for myself. Im really curious about the charge weight and if in fact it is 4064. Im not a chemist, but Im curious none the less.
Here is some data. Shot 4 months apart with a 36 degree temperature difference.
7/10/06 (96 F... welcome to Oklahoma) - Average = 2749 fps, std deviation = 13, ES = 25 fps, 5 shots fired, group = 0.59" @ 100 yds
11/25/06 (60 F) - Average = 2705 fps, std deviation = 11, ES = 21 fps, 5 shots fired, 0.52" @ 100 yds
In both cases these were clean bore fowlers I fired to dirty the barrel before starting my reloads. All fired in my M700 VS 26" off of a bench. I did these different temps to compare velocity swings with Varget and IMR 4895 with changing temp. The FGMM changed 1.59% with the 36 F temp change. IMR-4895 had the biggest changes averaging a 3.16% difference with 3 different charges. Varget was much better with an average change of 1.02%, but as low 0.57% when I was using upper end loads.
You have to take into account my velocities are measured with the cheapest Shooting Chrony. I have faith in it, but others that shot high end chronographs don't. I don't pay much attention to any single measurement. I am considered with averages to get an accurate muzzle velocity to pull into my calculations for long range drop adjustments.
I helped a friend develop some 308W loads using 168 Berger VLD hunting in Laupa with IMR-4064. We had put a new Shilen barrel on his rifle. I don't thing he every shoot a single group larger that 0.70" inches. It was absolutely amazing. I wouldn't have a problem giving 4064 a try.
Hope this helps, Tim
I agree..I dont mind giving 4064 a try either. Ive been an avid Varget fan for many a yr but I cant get my hands on any and its been that way for awhile.
Im in the process of hopefully finishing my load development on my 175smk,s and 4064. Id love to find myself hitting paydirt with me having the ability of copying FGMM in 168.
I too have whats considered an "affordable" chrony and trust my averages as well
Thank you for the reply Tim. Those numbers looks pretty darn good for factory stuff, I'm impressed. Again, thank you.
I havent had a chance to pull one apart yet....but I clocked some 168 FMGG 5 rd average and boy was I suprised at the speed.
Average was 2800 (wow).
I cked my chrono with known speeds and ballistic calculations from other rds that Ive dialed in from 100 out to 1K so i know the speeds are correct.
The range where I was doing the testing is at 3850 elv. the mountain valley,s where I shoot at 4200 ft.
way cool.......let the reloading begin....least I know where the speeds need to be....now to pull one apart 2-night.......muhahahaha.....
Exactly!....SPOT ON......Quote:
Originally Posted by nso123
Pull,d one apart this evening and Dans info is exact. The powder looks exactly like 4064...course Im not a chemist but to my eyes? looks identical. Exactly 42.8grs
One thing I noticed that has some importance is that the projectile has a pretty good (heavy) crimping mark. I found that interesting. I used to crimp everything but once I started load development on my 10 FCP-HS and quickly aquired consistant accuracy without a crimp?...I stopped crimping. I crimp all my gas guns...but not bolt guns.
Ive got once fired Fed brass along with Federal 210M primers,168 smk,s and 4064.
Gonna load some up and put a good crimp on-em and see what gives.
Tried the crimp versus non-crimp in my bolt gun using a 308w many years ago. In short, I saw no improvement in accuracy or reproducibility. I also studied neck-sized versus full length sizing. What I learned was that if the FL die was set to give the minimum bump I it was just as good as neck sizing on accuracy. That is when I learned the value of Skip's die shim. Allows rapid adjustment of headspace to the 0.001". Most used tool in my reloading box other than dies and primer tools. http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod33197.aspx.
It will be interesting to get what you get. Every gun has its own personally and you may see something different.
Luck, Tim
I agree on crimping....but seeing as how federal crimps there loads?.....I gotta give it a go and see what gives.....If its shoots as good as there FGMM?......then it,ll be an early x-mas present to myself..