action screw torque-ing sequence on a non-accustock?

Model 10fp le2 from 2003, removed the stock to drill, tap scope mounting
In a larger screw diam. From #6-36 (?) To the #8-32 diam. In re-installing factory stock,
Is there a sequence to tightening the action screws? I understand the significance
Of resting the butt on something solid to set the recoil lug, but it there a generally accepted
Method to which screw first,...etc.? Thanks for any responses.

* I checked for faq's/how to's on this forum but nothing pertaining to my non-
accustock stock.

I typically snug (just so they are snug) them both up, then I will crack the front one loose about 1/4 turn and torque it, then repeat with the rear one. Don't know if this is right or wrong but it has worked for me for years. I guess I started that practice when I had a Ruger M77R years ago with the angled front action screw, I always tightened that one first.

Larry

Thanks larry, I'll try that. Thanks for the response!

That is pretty much Savages method in their book that comes with the gun. I tighten up the front one loosely and then the back one. Then torque starting with the front and then back to the back and finish by tightening in 10 lb increments.

I printed the pdf format manual from savage's site but it
only states to torque to factory specs. So I looked up torque
specs in their faq's area and it stated 30-35#'s for synthetic
stocks is all. No sequence to it. I'll do it the way you guys
have explained. Thanks for sharing guys.

Thanks. Lot more info than what I got from savage's website and the
owners manual I printed off there. Thanks again guys!

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Originally Posted by buxman66

Thanks. Lot more info than what I got from savage's website and the
owners manual I printed off there. Thanks again guys!

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Ever have a question like that again, call Savage. They are friendly and helpful. You've gotten good answers so far though.

That is a fact. I called them the other day for serial # verification
of manufacture date, and for model # suffix identification. She
asked me if that was all I needed and I said I would like to order
a accutrigger tool also. She sent me 1 for free! Never been into savage
rifles but I think that's gonna change.

I knew this question was going to come up as soon as I promoted the AccuStock torque spec's. LOL The actual torque value doesn't matter all that much. Find the torque value you rifle prefers - whatever that may be, and then make sure that's what you torque the screws to each time you remove/reinstall the stock so it's consistent.

Personally I've never used a torque wrench on the action screws of any of the rifles I've owned or reviewed over the years, yet most every one of them would consistently shoot sub MOA groups if I fed them good ammo and did my part. In fact, most would consistently shoot 3/4 minute or smaller groups and a handful would consistently shoot 1/2 minute or smaller groups. Maybe I just have precisely calibrated hands? :noidea:

Hah! Now ain't that somethin! That's good baker cuz I don't have an in/lbs torque wrench.
But I do have a couple ft/lbs. tw !! Thanks for the knowledge.

J.Baker, you are absolutely right IMHO. A lot of shooters think they can solve "bedding" problems because they own an "inch" # torque wrench. Fact is, as you said, when the action is properly bedded, the "torque" is almost a "non issue". When it's right, you know it. Proper torque "is" a feel any mechanic develops over time. I like to have tools, and use them, but an inch # torque wrench is one that I haven't been compelled to buy. However, for the last 5 years, when folks ask "what do you want for Christmas", I just get a blank stare when I say "an inch# torque" wrench. But I will keep on asking-hint, hint ! :-)

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Originally Posted by FW Conch

J.Baker, you are absolutely right IMHO. A lot of shooters think they can solve "bedding" problems because they own an "inch" # torque wrench. Fact is, as you said, when the action is properly bedded, the "torque" is almost a "non issue". When it's right, you know it. Proper torque "is" a feel any mechanic develops over time. I like to have tools, and use them, but an inch # torque wrench is one that I haven't been compelled to buy. However, for the last 5 years, when folks ask "what do you want for Christmas", I just get a blank stare when I say "an inch# torque" wrench. But I will keep on asking-hint, hint ! :-)

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You inject bedding into the equation, but bedding isn't a factor unless there's a major issue with the inletting which would clearly be evident even with the actions screws totally removed. The recently posted video of the guy making a very crude 2x4 stock gives concrete verification that like action screw torque - bedding isn't nearly as important as most people make it out to be when it comes to the accuracy of a rifle. As long as there's nothing wrong to negatively affect the accuracy, glass bedding will do little to improve the accuracy other than making sure your barreled action is consistently located in the exact same position within the stock each time you remove/reinstall it.

That's essentially all that bedding is and does - it provides for a glove fit of the action to the stock to ensure it will always remain in the exact same location shot to shot and after being removed and reinstalled in the stock. However, somewhere along the line people adopted this notion that you HAVE to glass bed your rifle to get good accuracy and that's simply not the case. Glass bedding can only improve the accuracy of a rifle IF there was a pre-existing bedding issue that was negatively affecting accuracy. In fact, eight times out of ten you probably won't see any noticeable difference in the accuracy of a rifle after glass bedding it because there was no bedding problem to start with.

But we all now how it goes, some guy read somewhere on the internet that you HAVE to bed your rifle for it to be accurate therefore it must be true. If that's the law of the land then clearly I'm doing something wrong as I've managed to shoot groups in the 2's with bone stock Savage rifles straight out of the box with factory ammo on more than one occasion, and I just recently shot a 50 yard group in the 1's with my 17HMR rimfire that's neither glass nor pillar bedded in a wood stock. Clearly these rifles defy the unquestionable Laws of Internet Ballistics and Shooting and are therefore defective and must be destroyed immediately. LOL

BTW, don't you just hate it when someone brings a little common sense and logic to the table? haha

I could never figure out how you can change torque specs when the screw can't turn anymore. Assume you install a screw in a hole and bottom it out to the screw head, then check torque. The torque reading will go up with the more force you put on the screw, but the screw won't turn anymore. So the torque doesn't actually change. Take a rifle with pillars, tight is tight, the screw will only tighten so far then stop turning, unless you start crushing things, right ? Someone please explain it to me if I'm wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J. Baker

BTW, don't you just hate it when someone brings a little common sense and logic to the table? haha

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That's because your way of thinking doesn't sell any torque wrenches LOL.

J. Baker, now I guess we need to come to a universal definition of "bedding". When I mentioned bedding above, in that particular post, I was referring to "that which the action is setting on". That could be bare wood or plastic, bare wood or plastic with "glass bedding" added, pillar bedding, bedding block, chassis system, barrel block, all of which could utilize "glass bedding", or not. In the past, when I thought "bedding", I was thinking "glass". But now I realize all actions are bedded on something. And yes, when I bought my B&C Madalist(T/V), some said they glass bedded their actions to the aluminum block, and some said it was not necessary. I have found it "not" to be necessary. I have a stock that I installed a Whidden Bedding Block in and IMHO, that doesn't need glass bedding either. If I ever have so much extra money that I decide to buy a $1,000 to $2,500 chassis system, I would be extremely disappointed if I felt I had to "glass bed" them.

RP12, what you mentioned about the proper torque coming quickly is, of course, what we are trying to achieve. The problem, is when that "doesn't happen". When the screws tighten up gradually, the stresses on the action is unequal. This has been mentioned often on this site. And the problem is there even when a certain torque is achieved.

Good Luck & Good Shooting.......Jim

We could go one step further and question, is it "glass bedding" or "epoxy" bedding ? LOL.

Good info here. Just finished tapping my rear-most scope mount screws, filed down the
Flashing/burr off the receiver and the weaver picatinny rail. Hate to put this flimsy
Tupperware stock back on, but if I'm gonna throw some down range I think i'll have to.

RP12. As torque is applied to a greater degree, any mismatch between the action and the bedding can be overcome by the greater force applied. Resulting in a distortion of the action that may not repeat on subsequent installations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stangfish

RP12. As torque is applied to a greater degree, any mismatch between the action and the bedding can be overcome by the greater force applied. Resulting in a distortion of the action that may not repeat on subsequent installations.

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Right, but the screw would have to turn more to overcome the mismatch. I'm saying if the screw won't turn with 20lbs of force and still won't turn anymore with 40 lbs, then it makes no difference in torque value.

It will turn with the extra force when it is a difference as large as you used in your example on the 1/4-28 screws we are using. Be it from the action flexing, wood crushing, or most likely bolt stretching. RP12 Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I'm reading your post is that you feel if I torque the lugs on my truck to 10 foot pounds I'm not accomplishing anything by going to the 140 I actually use? Have you any experience with fasteners and torque, bolt stretch gauges etc? Not insulting you, just wondering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maztech89

It will turn with the extra force when it is a difference as large as you used in your example on the 1/4-28 screws we are using. Be it from the action flexing, wood crushing, or most likely bolt stretching. RP12 Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I'm reading your post is that you feel if I torque the lugs on my truck to 10 foot pounds I'm not accomplishing anything by going to the 140 I actually use? Have you any experience with fasteners and torque, bolt stretch gauges etc? Not insulting you, just wondering.

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IF THE BOLT ("DOES NOT TURN") ANY FURTER, BECAUSE IT'S AS TIGHT AS IT CAN GET, YOU CAN PUT AS MUCH FORCE ON THAT SCREW THAT YOU WANT AND NOT CHANGE TORQUE VALUE. If you torque a bolt to 30 lbs and it won't turn any more, then turn your torque wrench to 40lbs and it still does not move. Then set it to 20 lbs of coarse it's not going to move either. What is the torque value ?The original 30 or 40 or even 50 if the screw does not turn any more. You keep going back to bolt stretch, flexing, wood crushing and taking up tolerances, "ALL" those thing will be influenced and evident by the bolt turning. There is a point where the bolt will stop turning, at that point torque values mean nothing.

If you tighten your action screws with an Allen key (wrench) till the key flexes, say 1/4 in of flex, the screw has "stopped" turning, then keep applying force to the key for another 1/4 in of flex, now 1/2 in total, and the screw does not turn, you have not added anymore torque to that screw.

Guys I think your points have been made. Drop it for gosh sake. This is the
same b.s. that happens on every freakin board I seem to get on! I'm a machinist
and some ppl don't get the idea of thread stretch. You don't have to ram it down the throat.

Thanks to the several few that actually wanted to address the topic that was posted.your
experience has been helpful.

Again, if the threads are stretching, the screw "is turning". Not that hard to figure out. I am now done beating this dead horse.:frusty: