.308 crimping issue

Hello,
Been using an RCBS Turret press for a short while now. (couple of months)

I'm having issues crimping the bullet tight enough into the case.

I have both FL & neck sizer dies.

I used an unfired case/ round, to set my "depth" of how far the case will travel into the die. (and a smidgen more)
and then turned down the bullet press until it touches the top of the round - for seating depth.

Every once in a while, I find the bullet is not crimped into the case tight enough. I can push it in by hand into the case.

Now when I have the case travel into the die further, it crushes the taper portion of the case.

Its like the bullet seats, and crimps tight, then gets pushed further down, crushing the case. (exactly - duh)
So I backed off of the depth, but now the rounds do not seem tight ALL the time in the case.

This is very frustrating to find that sweet spot.

Could someone point out some helpful hints.
I've used a Dillion is the past, but this is my first set up with a "Shouldered" case.


I have watched several How to videos, but I can not find a set up video for this press.
I understand the basic principles, and it "gets me by" but I want it correct, not close.

Much appreciated,
aka:Cliff

Are all your cases trimmed to the same length? Why do you crimp? If ammo is not for a semi no need to crimp. I don't even crimp my AR ammo.

I don't bother to crimp. Sounds more like a "neck tension" problem. Never had an issue with bullets moving using a full length resizing die. They don't move after seating.
Only thing I crimp is my 44 Mag and I really don't think that's even necessary.
No crimp on my M1A, AR or Mini 14. All the crimping is doing is working the neck too much.

I only crimp my 9mm.

It is all in neck tension. You need to measure your neck diameter. Something is off causing there to be no neck tension. I have always had 0.001-0.002" of neck tension so the case is smaller than the bullet and the case squeezes the bullet and holds it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missed

.... It is all in neck tension. You need to measure your neck diameter. Something is off causing there to be no neck tension. I have always had 0.001-0.002" of neck tension so the case is smaller than the bullet and the case squeezes the bullet and holds it.

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That's what I'm looking to say !

Neck tension. - not crimp.

How can I increase neck tension?

I resize, add primer, add powder and seat bullet.
When the bullet seats, it is also being pushed a bit further into the die for a "crimp" or final tension increase.

I need to find that sweet spot of neck tension without collapsing the taper portion, and seating the bullet.

Is it a matter of bullet lube when seating?
I'm a little confused. :(

If you are collapsing the shoulder of the case you need to turn the seater die out about 1/2 turn and then adjust the seater plug in to get the right seating depth. You should not need to crimp for the 308 in a bolt gun. If the dies are correct and all cases are trimmed to the same length you should be good to go. If the cartridges are loaded correctly you should not be able to move the bullet in the case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GaryB

If you are collapsing the shoulder of the case you need to turn the seater die out about 1/2 turn and then adjust the seater plug in to get the right seating depth. You should not need to crimp for the 308 in a bolt gun. If the dies are correct and all cases are trimmed to the same length you should be good to go. If the cartridges are loaded correctly you should not be able to move the bullet in the case.

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Ok, I will go back and double check everything again.
I forgot to mention, yes, it is a BOLT gun.

Cliff, You mentioned your press type but not your sizing die type. ( sounds like the issues I had with the lee collet die) How many reloads out of the cases you are having trouble with? (possible neck work hardening/annealing issue) Have you ever trimmed them? Is your headspace short or long?(long and the lee collet die may cause the problem you describe). Pictures would be awesome.

RCBS FL & Neck dies. -I bought both types.
I was having trouble with all the cases when sizing. Which made me think it was not properly set up. (Depth in die)
Now it is only here and there about neck tension.

Last 20 shot, I had 15 good ones before I had an issue.

Gun is a Hog Hunter model 11. in .308

Trouble? X's brass has been reloaded? What die are you using with the brass you are having trouble with neck tension?



Can you measure the wall thickness of your case necks?

Trouble? X's brass has been reloaded? What die are you using with the brass you are having trouble with neck tension?



Can you measure the wall thickness of your case necks?


You have to remember how cloudy our crystal ball is. Details are meaningful when troubleshooting on the internet. Otherwise its the shotgun approach to figure out the problem

Yes, I understand.

Once fired brass. ALL factory stuff once shot, once reloaded, now with issues.

Yes, I can measure the thickness of the cases - when I get home tonight.

Having just said the above, is what made me think it was in the reloader set up.

I even tried doing FL resize, if it had an issue, I'd go for the Neck only, or visa versa doing that.
:(

I had this same problem when I first started reloading, it was caused by improper setup of the resizing die.. my bullets would fall into the brass casing!


run the ram up with shell holder in place, run die in till it touches shell holder then lower ram and give die 1/4 to 1/2 turn to get a soft cam over of the ram and no more loose bullets...

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

I started crimping my 308 with a Lee factory crimp die, so far I think it works great--for me. Those ballistic silvertips are slippery suckers. : )

If it is only the occasional round doing it, make sure your die is tight in the press and not moving around, and make sure you are moving the ram a full stroke when you are resizing.

Hi Guys. (mike, mike, mike.... What day is it?!!!!)

Ok, cleaned up some brass last night and started over on resetting everything on the FL decapping die. (only) -1 step at a time.

Made sure the case being worked on was going ALL the way into the die. (PITA)
In doing so, I had to make sure the case is very lubed. (almost wet)
but it goes all the way now. If I go too far, it wrinkles the shoulder and the case will not chamber. (had to kill 3 cases b4 getting it set right)

The inside diameter of the neck measures .302.5 now.
I picked up a brand new case guage, some cases were over in length and some close and some good to go (GTG).

I need to trim them down now and set the seating die next.

Thanks ALL for the greeat information to get me thinking.
it's a reloader, how much "could" go wrong? :p
(I know, if you can think it, it will screw up)

Be careful in how much you lube the cases too. The lube can build up and cause a case to get indentions in it when you size them. You might try Imperial Sizing wax.

I was just reading something about wax in another thread.
I'm sure with some digging around here I can find out how to use for proper application of it.

I'm sure I also need "Bullet Lube", having a .3025 case hole and a .308 bullet.

The amount of lube used can also affect case headspace length after sizing. Lube dents already mentioned is another issue with heavy case lube.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stangfish

The amount of lube used can also affect case headspace length..

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It can also wrinkle the shoulders too.

I put enough of the lee lube on to where you can feel the lube on the case and see a haze from it on there but no more than that. So your 0.006. Do you have the papers with your dies? Can you set it up from the beginning?

The inside diameter of the neck measures .302.5 now.

That seems tight to me. I have purchased brass (Lapua and Nosler) in .308 cal that had an ID of .305 to .3055. And found it a tight fit with pills mic'd at .3075. Good luck. The main thing for continued accuracy is that the neck tension i.e. neck ID remain constant throughout your reloads as to then have a reasonable expectation of consistent accuracy.


Snipe

How are you measuring? The size you state is small. You may need to purchase a larger button.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aka:Cliff

Hi Guys. (mike, mike, mike.... What day is it?!!!!)

Ok, cleaned up some brass last night and started over on resetting everything on the FL decapping die. (only) -1 step at a time.

Made sure the case being worked on was going ALL the way into the die. (PITA)
In doing so, I had to make sure the case is very lubed. (almost wet)
but it goes all the way now. If I go too far, it wrinkles the shoulder and the case will not chamber. (had to kill 3 cases b4 getting it set right)

The inside diameter of the neck measures .302.5 now.
I picked up a brand new case guage, some cases were over in length and some close and some good to go (GTG).

I need to trim them down now and set the seating die next.

Thanks ALL for the greeat information to get me thinking.
it's a reloader, how much "could" go wrong? :p
(I know, if you can think it, it will screw up)

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Now you have the die set to deep. Back out and start again. .3025 means you are up into the built in crimp. You should have a sized brass with somewhere around .305-.3065 as a neck ID.

Cliff,
You have to get this right before you proceed. If you are getting crinkled shoulders, you have lube built up inside your die. Those are hydraulic dents caused by lube. Remove the decapping stem and clean inside of die. I heartily recommend Imperial die wax; just swipe a little on the side of the case and a little inside the neck with a qtip, then roll the case on your lube pad to spread it out. You should NEVER have lube on the shoulder of the case. After sizing, wipe off the outside with a shop rag and wipe the inside of the case neck clean with a qtip.

Some dies come with an undersized button that just holds the decapping pin AND a button that expands the neck on exit. If your measurements are correct I'm guessing you don't have the expander button installed. You can tell by measuring the OD of the button - it should be about .306-.307 OD. That will expand your necks when the case exits the die. Your current measurement, if it's correct, is too tight. It will make bullet seating difficult and may even collapse the shoulder or scar the bullet while seating.

You're doing right asking questions - keep at it and you;ll get it right.
ELkbane

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elkbane

Cliff,
You have to get this right before you proceed. If you are getting crinkled shoulders, you have lube built up inside your die. Those are hydraulic dents caused by lube. Remove the decapping stem and clean inside of die. I heartily recommend Imperial die wax; just swipe a little on the side of the case and a little inside the neck with a qtip, then roll the case on your lube pad to spread it out. You should NEVER have lube on the shoulder of the case. After sizing, wipe off the outside with a shop rag and wipe the inside of the case neck clean with a qtip.

Some dies come with an undersized button that just holds the decapping pin AND a button that expands the neck on exit. If your measurements are correct I'm guessing you don't have the expander button installed. You can tell by measuring the OD of the button - it should be about .306-.307 OD. That will expand your necks when the case exits the die. Your current measurement, if it's correct, is too tight. It will make bullet seating difficult and may even collapse the shoulder or scar the bullet while seating.

You're doing right asking questions - keep at it and you;ll get it right.
ELkbane

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EXCELLENT advice. The expander ball on my NECK sizing/de-priming die is .306.5. A tension/neck ID I have found to be ideal. Any more, I run new brass through the ball ONLY to establish a consistent neck tension/ID. It has made all the difference in accuracy. Consistent accuracy that is.


Snipe

Thanks guys, I am tracking.

I agree about the button size and tightness of it.

Case depth in the die too far? How do I get it sized proper near the base?
I understand b/c I also have a neck only die too, it may not matter.

Let me measure the neck ID after the button is run through it.
I don't remember if I used the button or not on this last batch. (not enuff coffe yet)
I just cleaned them up a bit in the media tumbler so I have a decent starting point. - A CLEAN CASE !

=)