Vortex Viper PST 4-16 or 6-25?

I'm currently building a .30-06 for long range hunting target shooting out to 1,000+ and possibly competition. I think I have settled on one of these two scopes in FFP in either MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL. Which would you recommend and why and does anyone possibly have a picture through a scope at 16 or 25 power at 1,000 yards? Also if you do have a scope at the same price point and features ie FFP matching reticle to turrets and similar power I would be interested. Basically I'm having a hard time deciding because I would like the extra power at 25x I'm kind of reticent to give up the low end at 4x.

as for power, 16 is enough for about any distance for hunting. target shooters tend to like more power.
the ffp vs 2nd fp is a personal call that wont really make much difference. you still have to hit what your
aiming at.
my question is why 06? it for sure isnt a 1000 yd hunting cartridge. if you check the websites of the 1000 yd
benchrest clubs you wont find any there either. a 280 ai or a 7 mag would be a far better choice for what your planning.

Caliber choice is already settled. Thanks for the input but my question is about the optic not my choice of caliber.

Gotta love the old 06! My biggest question would be, "What distance hunting?" If most of your hunting shots are going to be out beyond 100m, then I wouldn't be too concerned about having a variable power scope with 6X on the bottom end. If you're going to hunt at shorter ranges you're going to want a lowering magnification.

When I do most of my shooting, even at long ranges, I almost never push the magnification beyond 20X. I would take some 4-16 and 6-24 power scopes to a 1000m range to see which one you like.

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Originally Posted by psharon97

Gotta love the old 06! My biggest question would be, "What distance hunting?" If most of your hunting shots are going to be out beyond 100m, then I wouldn't be too concerned about having a variable power scope with 6X on the bottom end. If you're going to hunt at shorter ranges you're going to want a lowering magnification.

When I do most of my shooting, even at long ranges, I almost never push the magnification beyond 20X. I would take some 4-16 and 6-24 power scopes to a 1000m range to see which one you like.

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Sadly I don't know of any way to get any scopes out to try them. Nobody I know has anything over a 3-9x optic. And the range I go to only has targets out to 800. Anything above that will be out on BLM land which there is plenty of here. Well for hunting it will probably be used mostly for coyotes at longer ranges and I may bring it out for deer or elk hunting occasionally.

My favorite is a Weaver 4-20x 50 Euro slam with FFP that provides wide mag range and is very clear at 1000 yd. Natchez had on sale for about $500.

I just got the Vortex Viper HS-LR with XLR reticle. 6-24x50 FFP. It is awesomely clear, and the reticle does a wonderful job of helping you range... it's a MOA/MOA scope.

Are these the PST line?

I have owned both the 4-16 and 6-24 and can tell you from personal experience the glass on the 6-24 is better. Before I bought it I had read multiple reviews and forums stating the glass on the 6-24 was more clear and it's true. When I ordered the 6-24 they sent me the 4-16 on accident so I got a chance to look through both.

Good choice on going moa/moa or mil/mil it sure makes it easier when everything matches up.

I have also owned a 4-16 viper hs lr and the PST line is worth the extra cash.

Also, 30-06 is a fine long range cartridge.

Hope that helps.

Oh, here is the best deal I have personally seen on this scope. If you are by chance military they also have a discount. I have nothing but good things to say about this company.

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/v..._the_day_aug_8

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Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

Are these the PST line?

I have owned both the 4-16 and 6-24 and can tell you from personal experience the glass on the 6-24 is better. Before I bought it I had read multiple reviews and forums stating the glass on the 6-24 was more clear and it's true. When I ordered the 6-24 they sent me the 4-16 on accident so I got a chance to look through both.

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I have heard this several times that the glass on the 6-24 is better. One thing to consider is that with the FFP, a lot of times you can only see the hash marks for ranging on the higher mag settings. So on the 24x you would have a much more compromised field of view at closer in ranges than with the 4-16x scope. And with the 06, the extreme max range I would guesstimate to be in the 1200-1400yd area. And a 16x could potentially do that. 24x even more so, but I would look at the ranges you will most often be shooting at and go from there. I think in the end the 4-16x is the best compromise int he FFP world. As for MOA/MOA vs Mil/Mil. The mil/mil is easier to work for ranging, but the MOA gives you more precise adjustments. Personally I would go Mil/Mil simply for convenience and the 4-16x for the utility.

the thing I prefer on the SFP over the FFP is the fact that you get a finer crosshair at full power and if you plan on using you turrets instead of holdover I think its the better choice

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Originally Posted by proline

the thing I prefer on the SFP over the FFP is the fact that you get a finer crosshair at full power and if you plan on using you turrets instead of holdover I think its the better choice

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have you actually used two otherwise identicle scopes before arriving at your (opinion).
if you read these post you will find most of the comments are just that, opinions.
fact is none of this means didley squat as it pertains to how successful a shooter/hunter will be.
none of this would have been discussed as recently as 10 years ago or even less in some cases.
yet very successful long range hunting/shooting has been happening at plus 1000 yds for more than 50 years.
even then dialing scopes was the cause of its success. bottom line is it takes an experienced shooter who
knows his equiptment and how to use it.

I have never shot with a FFP but I have the SFP in the 6-24 viper pst but I sell both, and the FFP in the 6-24 pst is 3x thicker at full power.
But I agree you have to know your equipment

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Originally Posted by proline

I have never shot with a FFP but I have the SFP in the 6-24 viper pst but I sell both, and the FFP in the 6-24 pst is 3x thicker at full power.
But I agree you have to know your equipment

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well there you go thats exactly what i was referring to.
there would be others offering advice who never looked thru either let alone shoot with them.
my son has a vortex viper 6x24 on a 338x378. it has a mildot reticle. time will tell how
it will hold up. right now there are only about 125 rounds thru the gun. weve shot it to 1500 ydsand the reticle isnt an issue. in over 40 years of my doing this reticles have never been an issue.
the issues are always shooter related which includes me. we all see things differently which is fine.
but dont lose sight of what works and has been working for a very long time. about 3 years ago i bought a leupold vx3 3.5x10 with ao and target knobs from a friend who had owned it for about
25 years for $350. it was in about mint condition appearance wise. i used it on my 6.5 short and it functioned well.
i sent it back to leupold 2 months ago for a reticle change. they later called and said there was an internal problem they couldnt fix due to age and parts availibility. 2 days ago the ups truck delivered a new scope at no charge.
how valuable is that knowing that type of warranty applies even for those who didnt originally purchase it.
those type scopes can be bought on ebay for very reasonable prices. why would anybody buy a junk scope when oppurtunities like that are available.

I was merely stating a fact when you look at the viper pst the reticle is different thickness from the SFP to the FFP and it was something that I had to consider when I bought mine

I have both, the SFP 6.5-20 Viper with the wide plex reticle, and the FFP 6.5-24 Viper PST with MOA/MOA reticle. While the FFP is nice, I prefer the SFP. I shoot at 500 - 600 most of the time, and the FFP crosshairs are just too big at full power. At that range, I back off to 16X with the FFP and all is good. I can't see a difference in the glass quality between the two. They're both excellent scopes. If I had it to do over, I would have bought the PST in MOA/MOA SFP.

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Originally Posted by proline

I was merely stating a fact when you look at the viper pst the reticle is different thickness from the SFP to the FFP and it was something that I had to consider when I bought mine

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I agree. I've used both types of scopes. I prefer a SFP for my long range work, 1k+. I didn't mind the FFP up to about 500 yards, but beyond that, the reticle became too thick at full magnification.

I prefer the 6-24x scopes. 6x is low enough for quick shorter range hunting shots, and 24x works well for long range and bench work.

well its nice to see there are at least a few who have actually used a product before endorsing it.
im sure there will be more of the same type opinions as time goes on and the sfp option has been around longer.
all my scopes are ffp including one nightforce 8x32 nxs with the npr2 reticle. even at 32x the reticle dosent even
begin to be an issue. if you look at 1000 yd competetion virtualy all the top shooters are using ffp nightforce scopes.
then of coarse there is the military and the snipers who also rely heavily on ffp nightforces. i think its going to take an awful
lot of convincing to change many minds on this issue.

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Originally Posted by yobuck

well its nice to see there are at least a few who have actually used a product before endorsing it.
im sure there will be more of the same type opinions as time goes on and the sfp option has been around longer.
all my scopes are ffp including one nightforce 8x32 nxs with the npr2 reticle. even at 32x the reticle dosent even
begin to be an issue. if you look at 1000 yd competetion virtualy all the top shooters are using ffp nightforce scopes.
then of coarse there is the military and the snipers who also rely heavily on ffp nightforces. i think its going to take an awful
lot of convincing to change many minds on this issue.

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The real attraction the the Vortex, IMHO, is the value for the $$$. Just be advised that the FFP cross hairs are quite large at full power, leaving the SFP a better choice for some. We can't all afford a Nightforce

I use the Vortex pst 6x24-50 sfp On my savage 308 with the milrad set up and have learned to range with it easily to 1000yrds. It also gives you a a multiplcation number on each x setting to go by, if your not zoomed to the 24x witch is nice when you need a wider point of view. I really like the glass and feel it is better than the 40mm pst's. also the reticle is very easy to see and calculate. I haven't used the illumination on it yet, but haven't had to. My 2cents
Monty

It really gets even more specific for "long range"; like what type of shooting? I found quite a range of unqualified, general answers, when I looked into this too and upon searching more and talking to / observing others I determined the following. At 1000 yards if you shoot with the F-class or paper-target guys, ie smaller groups are better, they want as much power as possible as long as you can see past the mirage; 30-50X if possible. Shooting steel at 1000 in tactical situations a max of 10-15X is suggested so you have a better field of view and can see where the misses hit in order to call and make your own adjustments; in that case matching reticle and turrets are desirable. Like TRex says in his Sniper 101 series, all this becomes a very "mission specific" adventure that you really need to consider in advance in order to make the best decision. Of course the same logic goes for stock selection, etc but that's a different story.

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Originally Posted by Texas Solo

The real attraction the the Vortex, IMHO, is the value for the $$$. Just be advised that the FFP cross hairs are quite large at full power, leaving the SFP a better choice for some. We can't all afford a Nightforce

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well my son bought a 6x24 vortex last year for the exact reasons you cited. so far it seems to be a very nice scope. it has all the features
of a nightforce and was about half the cost. if in five years he's still happy with it thats one thing if not thats another thing. time will tell.
as for the cross hair thickness of ffp scopes i dont need to be advised on that. shooting at distances out to a mile is something we can and
do from the front yard of our camp. as ive stated before reticles are not an issue. but to each his own and if you think its better to own
a sfp scope by all means get one.
as for nightforce the only time ive known someone to sell one was because they needed money. theres always somebody anxious
to have it.

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Originally Posted by yobuck

well its nice to see there are at least a few who have actually used a product before endorsing it.
im sure there will be more of the same type opinions as time goes on and the sfp option has been around longer.
all my scopes are ffp including one nightforce 8x32 nxs with the npr2 reticle. even at 32x the reticle dosent even
begin to be an issue. if you look at 1000 yd competetion virtualy all the top shooters are using ffp nightforce scopes.
then of coarse there is the military and the snipers who also rely heavily on ffp nightforces. i think its going to take an awful
lot of convincing to change many minds on this issue.

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The reason your 8-32 Nighforce reticle isn't a problem at 32x is because it is second focal plane. Nightforce only makes two FFP scopes. The F1 which only comes in 3-15x, and the B.E.A.S.T. which comes in 5-25x.

1000yd competition shooters use Nightforce, but very few if any use ffp models. Most are using the regular NXS, Competition, or Benchrest series in 8-32x, 12-42x, and the new 15-55x scopes.