Help Please With (Hopefully) Minor Scope Isues

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07-09-2013, 07:12 AM
Silvercrow1

Help Please With (Hopefully) Minor Scope Isues

Hi Folks! I'm a new guy (greenhorn, FNG, etc.) and at 57 yoa have re-entered the world of rifle shooting. So I got a new to me 110 in .223, varminter barrel, long action, Tupperware stock that I love but I'm having some scope issues. Enter the experts...I hope.

The rifle came with an EGW picitinney rail- first time I've used one. Mounted my scope using Warne medium maximus rings. The scope is a Nikon 4-12x40 Prostaff. Really good for the price (money is T I G H T). Well I dialed it in for the first time yesterday. At 100 yards I am VERY close to optical right extreme horizontally, and also in the lower-most portion optically vertically. For what I'll be doing with the gun (target to 200-300 yds.) varmints, my much more experienced buddy said I'd be fine, but brothers, IT BUGS DE CRAP OUTA ME!!

So, don't have the scratch to have a smith mount / remount the base, am only semi-handy doing gunsmith stuff. (I did get a FAT wrench..I can plug in the poundage and the bits..:redface-new:).

Will anyone suggest a good set of rings with windage adjustment? My price range upper end is $60.00. I'm open to other suggestions too...

Also having a bugger of a time aligning the rectical. I'd like to get a "Level, Level, Level" or similar product, but in the meantime I have two small bubble levels (former line levels). Can someone suggest where I might find a surface on the rifle itself to level it?

Thanks and sorry for the new guy questions.

Brian
07-09-2013, 07:49 AM
thomae

My standard answer to scope ring problems is to suggest Burris Signature Zee Rings. They have different inserts that can compensate for lots of off center mounting issues. If you use any other rings, you really need to align and lap them to make sure they are really true and won't damage your scope. (Darn...more tools to buy.)

If you have a 20 MOA scope rail, it could explain why your scope is adjusted very low at 100 yards. EGW rails will say that they are 20 MOA on the bottom of the rail over the ejection port.

As far as being way to the right, Have you tried reversing (front to rear and also left to right) the scope rings? Perhaps they are not exactly centered when mounted. When you mount them on the base, make sure they are pushed forward so the crossbolt is touching the metal of the mount. That way, when you shoot they won't shift from the recoil.

Worse case would be that your scope mounting holes are off center. In that case, I would go back to the Signature Zee rings as the easiest solution.

You don't really need a level, you just need a way to hold/clamp your rifle steady and some sort of reference line (It doesn't actually have to be vertical). As long as the line runs through the centerline of your barrel and the centerline of your scope, and your reticle lines up with the reference line, you are ok. Take a look at the diagram in this thread: http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...131#post193131

I hope this helps you troubleshoot.
07-09-2013, 09:09 AM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomae

My standard answer to scope ring problems is to suggest Burris Signature Zee Rings. They have different inserts that can compensate for lots of off center mounting issues. If you use any other rings, you really need to align and lap them to make sure they are really true and won't damage your scope. (Darn...more tools to buy.)

If you have a 20 MOA scope rail, it could explain why your scope is adjusted very low at 100 yards. EGW rails will say that they are 20 MOA on the bottom of the rail over the ejection port.

As far as being way to the right, Have you tried reversing (front to rear and also left to right) the scope rings? Perhaps they are not exactly centered when mounted. When you mount them on the base, make sure they are pushed forward so the crossbolt is touching the metal of the mount. That way, when you shoot they won't shift from the recoil.

Worse case would be that your scope mounting holes are off center. In that case, I would go back to the Signature Zee rings as the easiest solution.

You don't really need a level, you just need a way to hold/clamp your rifle steady and some sort of reference line (It doesn't actually have to be vertical). As long as the line runs through the centerline of your barrel and the centerline of your scope, and your reticle lines up with the reference line, you are ok. Take a look at the diagram in this thread: http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...131#post193131

I hope this helps you troubleshoot.

Thomae- yes it helps and thanks (again!). Those Burris Sig. Zs sound like a great all-around thing.. I'm gonna do that. My EGW says "EGW SAV LA FB" on the bottom- so I guess not a 20 moa base. Just a long action flat back (?) I kinda suspect the base receiver holes might be outa wack. I will try switching the rings around but the Burris idea is solid and as much as I like to tinker..I'm just not all that well versed with rifle mechanics.

Thanks for the thread ref! I'm gonna check that out now.

Brian
07-09-2013, 10:42 AM
jpdown

I would also recommend going with the Burris Signature Zee rings. I would recenter the scope reticle when you change out the rings. The quickest way to recenter the reticle is to put the scope objective up against a bathroom mirror and adjust the double reticle image you see until they are aligned. When you order the Burris Signature Zee rings, I would also order a set of the Burris Pos-align inserts. This will allow you to bore sight the rifle or get it shooting close to the bull at 25 yards without using up any internal windage/elevation adjustments (clicks). Then you can move out to 100 yards for final sight-in.

To level the scope reticle, remove the bolt from the action and put a small bubble level on the flat tang surface at the rear of the action.That will get your rifle action level. Hang a plumb line on the opposite side of the room. Now looking through the scope you can align your reticle with the plumb line and everything is level-level.
07-09-2013, 01:02 PM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpdown

I would also recommend going with the Burris Signature Zee rings. I would recenter the scope reticle when you change out the rings. The quickest way to recenter the reticle is to put the scope objective up against a bathroom mirror and adjust the double reticle image you see until they are aligned. When you order the Burris Signature Zee rings, I would also order a set of the Burris Pos-align inserts. This will allow you to bore sight the rifle or get it shooting close to the bull at 25 yards without using up any internal windage/elevation adjustments (clicks). Then you can move out to 100 yards for final sight-in.

To level the scope reticle, remove the bolt from the action and put a small bubble level on the flat tang surface at the rear of the action.That will get your rifle action level. Hang a plumb line on the opposite side of the room. Now looking through the scope you can align your reticle with the plumb line and everything is level-level.

COOL! Thank you JPDown! Uhh...stoopid question coming...when I'm doing the mirror thing...I'm looking through the scope or...:redface-new:

Brian; I'm lost but won't admit it..:confused:
07-09-2013, 03:10 PM
jpdown

Yes, look through the scope with the objective bell (front) flush against the mirror. You will see two reticles in your field of view. Turn the W/E adjustment knobs until both reticles are aligned or become one. Your reticle is now centered in your scope tubes adjustment range.

The more combersome way is to count clicks from one stop to the other stop and then adjust the W/E dials to the half way point. The mirror trick is faster and easier if the scope has not already been mounted on the rifle.

In theory, the closer you can keep the reticle to optical center of the scope, the less stress you put on the interal springs and moving parts. And you have the full range of travel if you want to dail in changes in elevation or windage.
07-09-2013, 03:25 PM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpdown

Yes, look through the scope with the objective bell (front) flush against the mirror. You will see two reticles in your field of view. Turn the W/E adjustment knobs until both reticles are aligned or become one. Your reticle is now centered in your scope tubes adjustment range.

The more combersome way is to count clicks from one stop to the other stop and then adjust the W/E dials to the half way point. The mirror trick is faster and easier if the scope has not already been mounted on the rifle.

In theory, the closer you can keep the reticle to optical center of the scope, the less stress you put on the interal springs and moving parts. And you have the full range of travel if you want to dail in changes in elevation or windage.

Sounds good! I have to remove the scope anyway to fit new rings when I get them....
07-09-2013, 03:47 PM
davemuzz

Silvercrow1....Hey man!!! Welcome to (or back to) the shooting sport world!!! At your age, or I should say our ages, your gonna love this stuff!!! I got back into it about ten years ago and it's been nothing but a learning curve since!! This is a great forum, and I would highly recommend for the low cost (aka it's cheap dude) to become a paid member. You will get access to the member for sale forum and other stuff that I forget.....because I've been a paid member forever. I let my membership slip and when I loggon and I don't have access to all of the "stuff" I send in my payment....and weep until I get it back.

But.....shoot, shoot, shoot!! I'm telling you...your gonna love this stuff!!

Dave
07-09-2013, 06:40 PM
yobuck

im just assuming s e pa is bucks co? if so what part?
07-09-2013, 06:43 PM
stangfish

silver crow. Is you action a flat back. Has the barrel ever been replaced or removed?
07-10-2013, 08:13 AM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by yobuck

im just assuming s e pa is bucks co? if so what part?

You assume correctly. Originally from Bethlehem, have been living in Sellersville, Pa. (8 miles south of Quakertown) for the past 27 years +/-. I'm guessin' you are from Bucks Co. too?

Brian
07-10-2013, 08:15 AM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemuzz

Silvercrow1....Hey man!!! Welcome to (or back to) the shooting sport world!!! At your age, or I should say our ages, your gonna love this stuff!!! But.....shoot, shoot, shoot!! I'm telling you...your gonna love this stuff!!

Dave

Thanks Dave! I'm REALLY digging this and this IS a great place with great folks! Gonna be a Paid Member after I get paid this Friday!

Brian
07-10-2013, 08:21 AM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangfish

silver crow. Is you action a flat back. Has the barrel ever been replaced or removed?

Hey Stangfish- it IS a flat-back. I can't tell if the barrels been replaced or messed with. My buddy bore-scoped it and said it looked good. He's a custom rifle guy and I do trust him, but he's no Savage expert. The barrell nut has one "mark" on it and it's not in those "depressions" where a barrel nut wrench would fit, BUT the "mark" is in a strange (to me) place. Really, the matt is off on that mark, showing metal. The mark is semi-curved, about 1/16" wide and 1/2 to 3/8th long. Not a gouge tho.. I intend to blow the dust off my photo bucket account and post some pics soon.

Brian
07-10-2013, 09:51 AM
stangfish

Some people twist the actions when trying to remove a barrel. I recently had the same trouble as you so I pulled the scope removed the rear rings and leveled the front base with a machinist level. The flat back was visibly twisted as if someone held the rear of the action and tried to break the barrel loose.
07-10-2013, 11:39 AM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangfish

Some people twist the actions when trying to remove a barrel. I recently had the same trouble as you so I pulled the scope removed the rear rings and leveled the front base with a machinist level. The flat back was visibly twisted as if someone held the rear of the action and tried to break the barrel loose.

Good Lord! Thanks...something else to worry about. Do you supply valium with your information... ;>0
ONLY KIDDING! So what was the outcome- did you get the scope..or I guess the action straight somehow? Please tell me the gun wasn't junk at that point...

Brian
07-13-2013, 05:44 AM
Silvercrow1

WELL..I cant afford to get the Sig. Zees for two weeks. I'll try swapping the front and rear rings. They are the Warne "vertical" Maximus. Would it help to try and switch or turn the rings 180 degrees? Does it matter what side of the gun the ring bolts are? Sorry for the dumb questions...I just dont know..but learning. For whatever reason, I have mounted all three of my scopes with the "base bolts" inserted from the left of the gun. Can't see where it would matter but..

Thanks in advance for all the counsel.

BTW- I got a Weaver two-level scope recticle kit. Best $15.00 I've spent. On all three of my rifles (.17 HMR Marlin, .22LR Savage Mk. II, and my Savage 110 .223) there are spots to magnetically mount the one bubble level to the receiver. Quick and seems accurate. Helpful for an older guy with tired eyes and living in a small townhouse. (Neighbors get nervous when I haul the guns out into the street and start "sighting in" on distant objects! LOL!)

Brian
07-13-2013, 09:39 AM
thomae

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvercrow1

Would it help to try and switch or turn the rings 180 degrees? Does it matter what side of the gun the ring bolts are? Sorry for the dumb questions...I just dont know..but learning.

If everything is machined perfectly and all the holes, etc...are truly on center, it doesn't matter.
- However, Since you are taking your rings off, it would not hurt to reassemble in all the different combinations to see if that will help. One never knows....and it can't hurt.
07-13-2013, 10:01 AM
yobuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvercrow1

You assume correctly. Originally from Bethlehem, have been living in Sellersville, Pa. (8 miles south of Quakertown) for the past 27 years +/-. I'm guessin' you are from Bucks Co. too?

Brian

for a brief period of time like 64 years. lived in hilltown twp for 19 years.
our kids graduated from pennridge. have some grandkids with the name nace
which might be familiar.
07-13-2013, 11:03 AM
stangfish

Good choice of rings. Still working on the idea of a jig to help me bring it back to usable condition without destroying the action. I think people try to hold the rear of the action or put something through the magport and the ejection window to remove the barrel. That is why I asked if the barrel had been removed.
07-13-2013, 01:10 PM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomae

If everything is machined perfectly and all the holes, etc...are truly on center, it doesn't matter.
- However, Since you are taking your rings off, it would not hurt to reassemble in all the different combinations to see if that will help. One never knows....and it can't hurt.

Again..Thanks Thomae! I'm gonna experiment a little..if for just the experience. Plus I don't want to wait two weeks to shoot again.
07-13-2013, 01:13 PM
Silvercrow1

Quote:

Originally Posted by yobuck

for a brief period of time like 64 years. lived in hilltown twp for 19 years.
our kids graduated from pennridge. have some grandkids with the name nace
which might be familiar.

LOL- RIGHT next door. I'm in Sellersville. Know Nace's from the greenhouse (now closed) and some from church. My Chief was Claude Nase, with the "S". My daughter graduated from Faith Christian Academy...we'll have to get together some time!

Brian