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Question: Just how many 20 Tactical shooters are there anyway, trying to decide between 20 Tactical and 223.
All the components are available with no problem on the web for both cartridges just have to decide which one then get the money allocated from my CFO(WIFE)
I don't shoot either cartridge but I have heard very good things about the 20 Practical also.
Charlie
I shoot both and like both, good brass for both too. There is no reason not to pick either one.
Decisions Decisions ??
Or walk a little on the wild side and buy a 223 and a 20 TAC barrel and just swap them out ... and make sure you keep the loads seperated :o
Now i see that there is a 20 Practical cartage I'm starting to get a headache
From what I have read, the 20 Practical is less exp in terms of dies and it seems you lose no vel over the Tactical
I shoot both. Love both. but recoil is less on the tac. I know a .223 is almost nothing but the Tac is even less. The only "advantage" the Tac has over the 20 Practical is you can buy Tac brass that says 20 Tac on the head stamp. If you have access to a lathe you can cut .100 off of a .204 Ruger die and you have a 20 Tac.
Steve
So, if you do that w/ the dies, that negates the die issue sounds like. Wonder why the recoil would be less w/ the Tac over the Practical? Don't they use about the same amt. of powder, etc. ? On paper- I don't own one yet but very interested in them- it looks like they are a little different in length and they have a slightly different shoulder angle. Just about eveything else is the same though from what I can see.
savageboy,think stevec was comparing recoil of a 223 vs 20 TAC, not 20 TAC vs 20 Practical. and yes the 20 TAC and 20 Practical are ballistic twins for all practical purposes. As steve mentioned it is nice having brass that says 20 TAC on it, and if you wanted there are a couple mfg that make 20 Tactical rifles (just would not be a savage).
If you get to confused call Todd Kindler at (330) 897-0613
Todd designed all of them and will be glad to explain the differences,tools you will need etc for each.
Most of the Sponsors here can supply you with the screw on bbl of your choice.
I am currently working on a 20 Practical. Sent a Savage LPV 204 Ruger barrel to Sinman and had it rechambered to 20 Practical.
So far, it looks very promising. I chose Practical over Tactical due to less cost for setting up dies. Already had s bushing type die for 223, picked up a .235 and .230 bushing to neck down the brass. Bought the 204 stem from Redding. Use my 223 Forster Micro seating die to finish it off. You can use 20 Tactical load data.
From what i can see, the only real difference between the 2 is shoulder angle and brass with a proper head stamp. Have you priced that brass yet? Lots of load data at
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
Good luck
Tony
Why look at the Tactical/Practical over the .204 Ruger for a bolt gun? The only advantage that I see in the shorter .20s is being able to load the Berger 50 and possibly 55gn VLDs to magazine length for use in an AR. If the concern is brass, .204 brass is readily available and inexpensive as are dies and you have several sources of factory ammo, also.
Why ask why? Todd Kinder developed the 20 Tactical and the 20 VarTarg (my choice) but I don't think he is responsible for the 20 Practical.
Charlie
Well, for me, I like to do things a little different sometimes. Also, I can shoot 32gr bullets at over 4200 FPS.
I have a 20 VT that is a joy to shoot. Some of us just want something a little different to shoot in our SAVAGE toys. We really do NOT care if the new cartridge works in any other type of gun. This is a Savage site.
I am retired so have to make money go a little further as do others here. I enjoy the challenge of finding which brand of 223 brass, that the rich folks leave on the ground when they go home, can be sized down and with the least casualties. Then there is the fun of safely working up loads remembering that the case capacity is less due to the thicker sidewalls.
Yes this does take time but it is winter and it is a fun project till the temp goes up and we can take our one of a kind toys to the range.
You can work up bug hole loads using Dogtown or other inexpensive projectiles in our toys. The accuracy is good for p dogs at 500 yards.
Who can ask for more fun with a SAVAGE product?
Bad Water Bill,
What did you conclude as to the best brass to convert to 20 Vartarg? At 1-Shot's suggestion I bought 1,000 pieces of WIN headstamp 222 Rem brass and converted it to 221 Fireball and then necked down to 20 Vartarg. Haven't fired any yet as I am waiting to get my mischambered barrel back from Shilen. I only lost four or five pieces during the conversion.
Charlie
why not just use .221 Fireball?
My 20 tac barrel pushed 40gr bergers to 4000fps, ith shoots best @3960 though, I never could get 35gr or 32gr pills to group so I never bothered to chrono them. I have owned 2 different 204s(wore one plumb out!) and it is a great cartrige. I went to a Tac just to play with something different(I get bored easily) and discovered it would do the same thing with a little less powder. I dont think the tac is any better than any of the others, just my flavor of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by acasto
Savageboy, I was comparing recoil between the Tac and .223. I dont know why but the .20s are just fun to shoot.(even more than the .223) Most everybody that has shot one of my 20 cals has bought one for themselves.
Steve
[quote=savageboy ]
why not just use .221 Fireball?
[quote]
Had one of those also. I cant afford to own them all at one time so, I will own them all at one time or another. :)
Steve
Just caught on to the context. I'm a little slow.
I think i'll just go with the 223 as brass and factory ammo can be had with no problem, this web site has all the 223 you can use www.ammoman.com
Savageboy,
If you were referring to using 221FB brass as the parent brass for the 20 VT the reasons are two: Money and availability. 221FB brass is $40.00/100 when you can find it and it's all R-P headstamp. 222Rem with WIN headstamp is $23.00/100. I allready have the Redding conversion dies so all that's left is time and a lot of it. By the time you are done it takes six or seven steps to convert 222/223 brass into 20 VarTarg.
Good thing it's winter.
Charlie
I can understand the desire to try something different. I'm looking at a bunch of different wildcat options for an AR build right now myself and trying to decide what cartridge to build my Savage hunting rifle on (no factory offerings in 6.5mm). I was just interested in what the intent was behind the custom build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Water Bill
Got it- I thought you were comparing vel/ recoil of the 20 Tac to the 20 Practical not the .223
Also, the .221 fireball brass- I was wondering why not just use that to form the 20VT. $$ makes sense. I really want a 20 cal of some sort and have been eyeing the 20 VT vs. the 20 Tac and Practicals. It seems the .20VT is a very efficient round, but the others push the bullets a little faster (w/ more powder of course) but use can use .223 Brass. So here I am again- which one to get next when my .223AI barrel is worn out?
There are also several 20 cal flavors based on the 222 cartridge..from the simple 20-222 (much like the 20 Procatical), 20 Bobcat, 20 VarTarg Turbo, etc.
While I have had mine for a short time, can tell you that the 20's are a lot of fun to load and shoot.
Well, for me, I like to do things a little different sometimes. Also, I can shoot 32gr bullets at over 4200 FPS.
My 20 tac barrel pushed 40gr bergers to 4000fps, ith shoots best @3960 though, I never could get 35gr or 32gr pills to group so I never bothered to chrono them. I have owned 2 different 204s(wore one plumb out!) and it is a great cartrige. I went to a Tac just to play with something different(I get bored easily) and discovered it would do the same thing with a little less powder. I dont think the tac is any better than any of the others, just my flavor of the day.
I agree, between the 20P and 20T, it's just a matter of what your into at the moment.
Havent really started load development yet, waiting on my Graf's order. Got 32's , 39's and 40's on the way.
What powder did you find worked for your 40's? Have some RL10 and Varget to try.
I have had the best luck with benchmark and H322. I get very simular groups from both.
Steve
+1 on H322 (and it burns cleaner than RL 10x, too!)
Mine likes H4198 and the old Hornady 33gr pills. Apparently, the 32grainers
worked better for the .204 Ruger. ;)