I think I hate my new 6.5 Creedmoor

I just bought the 12 LRP 6.5 Creedmoor. I've read every post I can find re load data, etc. I own a lot of accurate, precision rifles
and I've been reloading for years...But I can't get this thing to shoot no matter what.
I've tried three different powders and a half dozen loads for the 142 SMK. I've tried several different loads for the 120Amax.
The 142's were all 3/4 inches apart in different directions. The 120's were spraying like crazy.

I've never experienced so much frustration on a rifle and i never thought it could happen
with a Savage. I've got about 90 rounds down the pipe and I'm ready to dump it.

Has anyone else ever had this happen? I'm stumped.

What powders and what recipes? I dont remember the twist on that rifle...It may like something lighter.
I found it. it is an 8.

My young friend Matt had one of those. He was getting excellent results with H4350 and some Hornady factory ammo.
I cam PM him for the size / type if you want.

Frank in Fla

So nothing has shot well ? I will be the first to say that maybe you have a bedding issue ? The model 12 does not have a bedding block and my action was pretty sloppy in the stock. So that would be the #1 place to start. I looked it up and supposedly the LPR has a HS precision stock, but any of these stocks still needs to be bedded.

What else can you tell us about your setup ? Which scope rail do you have and which rings and what scope ? I can't tell you how many stories I have heard in recent times of people trying to zero scopes on EGW rails and running out of travel on 75 MOA scopes before they are zeroed. That does not sound like your story, but just relating.

If you have a good gunsmith nearby, I would take the rifle there and inspect the chamber, throat and muzzle with a bore scope. Every now and then a barrel slips through the Savage QC system with horrendous chatter marks, Savage has always replaced them.

Have you verified your MV ? If you want to run a stability calculation on a given bullet, the MV will be a key determining factor on whether one will be stable. Bad grouping with heavy bullets points first and foremost to potential instability or marginal stability. I tried to look it up, but Seirra doesn't list a recommended barrel twist, nor do they give a length to use in a stability calculation. I suggest you go to the Berger website and plug in the numbers to the stability calculator and see what that tells you. A 120 sounds a lot more modest. I notice that both of the Berger hunting bullets list min 1:8 barrel twist but velocity will be a factor in determining where you fall.

Usually h4350 41-42.5 gr with a 140 vld or amax will shoot supurb.

If they dont you might have a bad barrel there have been several people that have gotten lemons other win competitions. Im guessing you have a bad barrel contact savage.

The OP's story sounds about like my experience the first time out with a Remington. But meanwhile I have learned to anticipate "the issues". If it is not the bedding, then it sounds like a bigger kind of problem. Throat out of whack, wrong bore/groove size etc etc. If the MV was way below expectations that would point to a wrong bore size.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. I'm wondering the same thing as limige. I cleaned the barrel before break in and it seemed particularly dirty and rough. I thought it would get better with break in but it's actually worse. I mean...I can't believe how bad
it shoots.
Re powder...I don't have any H4350 but I do have IMR 4350. I also tried H 4831 and 4064. I read that someone was using Varget with the 120Amax but I had even worse luck with that. I looked at all the tables and IMR seems to allow for maybe .2 more grains than H. I read about post about the guy with a stock rifle like mine who had outstanding results with 41.5 and 142 smks. Even with the difference in powder it shouldn't be as Godawful as it is.
I'll try Savage and see what happens.
Thanks to all

Ideally you should try to identify what the issue is before sending it back. Often a smith will look at the bore with a borescope with either no charge or a nominal charge. That can be very revealing.

This was the post I was referring to regarding chatter marks in the bore. Pretty ridiculous that anything that bad could get out the factory.

http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...l=1#post149595

The LRP's do have an aluminum bedding block and barrel is free floated,however the barrel on mine looks like it was drilled with threaded rod. Don't overclean,shoot dirty and see what happens. Also take it out of the stock and check everything.Check front scope base screw and make sure it isn't bottomed out on the barrel(screw too long),try a different scope.Also try different torque on the action screws. I was very disappointed with mine too but Savage checked it and now it's starting to shoot better,sub moa @ 200.

My 223 factory barrel took several hundred rounds to get broke in. When it was new you couldn't hardly get a patch through it. I had about given up, but decided to just shoot the crap out of it on an upcoming PD shoot, after I got back it was fine, but it probably had 500 rounds through it.

Could be something as simple as seating depth too. Pick the load that has shot best so far and adjust the bullet out to touch the lands and then back it off in .005 increments and see if it tightens up any.

Why not just cut to the chase?
If it won't shoot IMR or H4350 with 140gr Amax's or a 120gr with Varget and it isn't a problem with anything other than the barrel it is cursed! I would be thinking of dumping it also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wbm

Why not just cut to the chase?
If it won't shoot IMR or H4350 with 140gr Amax's or a 120gr with Varget and it isn't a problem with anything other than the barrel it is cursed! I would be thinking of dumping it also.

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This guy just may be on to something...

Better send it to me & I'll do a full evaluation. I'll get it back to you in a few months, all ready to go - load work up included....

My 260 LRP will not shoot 140 amax,sst,Bergers, or the 142 SMK. You do not want to be in front of a 130 berger though! I do pretty good with 139 Lapua and H4831. It's hard to top the 130 berger and H4350 in my gun.

If 120 don't with varget somethings not right. Hornadys data. And 142 Smk is king. Ship it goodbye

Sounds just like MZ5's.... Get your bore scope out and take a look inside, we call that "corrugated".Sorry to hear they let more of them slip out like that. Bankruptcy years quality party deux.

Odd that Savage would not list it as having an accustock when it has one. Disappointing if this is another potential barrel issue. So far I had a Rem 700 with a crap barrel, a TC Icon with a awful 5R barrel in 308 and now Savage is going to ship more and more of this stuff too ? If I get one it is going straight back and they will make it right if I have to picket in front of the house of the CEO....

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

The LRP's do have an aluminum bedding block and barrel is free floated,however the barrel on mine looks like it was drilled with threaded rod.

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Just got back from the range today with my 12 LRP in 6.5 CM. It was shooting the 140 FACTORY ammo great. 20 rounds under half an inch @ 100 yards. I shot hand loads today had the SAME results. My hand loads are 142 SMK 41.5 grns of H4350 seated ON the lands. YES I know every gun is different but I can say this. If that gun isn't shooting anything you try send it back to Savage and they WILL make it right. Before you send it back as others have said check EVERY screw on that gun make sure EVERYTHING is tight. Also I may have missed it but what scope do you have on it and are you sure that the scope is in good working order. I thought I had problems with my .257 Roberts shooting too large of groups. When I swapped to a higher powered scope my group size shrank by a lot. Also my barrel in the 12 LRP seemed to be rough when i cleaned it the first time. I got some JBs non embedding bore paste from Cabela's (can also get it from Brownells) and cleaned the snot out of the barrel. Now when I clean it feels like glass.



Heres a link to the JB bore paste
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleanin...-prod1160.aspx

Of course, I checked the torque on all the screws and did all the checks. We ran paste through the barrel on day one
because, like Savage 13, the barrel felt rough as hell when we first set her up.
The scope is a Nikon Monarch 6-2450. I just took off my Cooper
6x47 where it was getting me bugholes at 200 yards so I know it's sound. I can throw on a Nightforce or one of my big Sightrons and see
what happens. I appreciate all the advice and I will most definitely pack it up and ship it back.
Thanks, Guys

It sounds like we need to do borescope inspections of our new rifles now before we leave the FFL.... We are becoming like a 3rd world country...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Odd that Savage would not list it as having an accustock when it has one. Disappointing if this is another potential barrel issue. So far I had a Rem 700 with a crap barrel, a TC Icon with a awful 5R barrel in 308 and now Savage is going to ship more and more of this stuff too ? If I get one it is going straight back and they will make it right if I have to picket in front of the house of the CEO....

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Its an HS Precision with Aluminum bedding block, NOT an Accustock.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

I had a Savage Long Range Hunter -- accustock and accutrigger -- but I couldn't get it to shoot better than 1.25" at 100 yards. That isn't "long range hunter" accuracy. Sent it back to Savage and they returned it with a 3-shot target that measured 1.25"! I sold it.

Same issue with my LRP in 6.5 CM. Frustrating as hell. Tried everything as well. To confirm it wasn't my scope, NF NXS 5.5-22, I put it back on my Accuracy International and shot a 5 rd group in the low .3's using Federal Gold Medal 168 gr. Its my first Savage and there seems to be a lot of rifles with the same issues. Everyone says just send it back Savage will look after it, how about checking it before it leaves the shop, that's a novel idea. Not to mention how long are you going to be out of a rifle. I didn't buy a brand new rifle with the intention of sending it back, you shouldn't have to. I can see an isolated incident, nothing man made is immune but based on the research there appears to be a pattern here. I am getting rid of it. It was a frustrating waste of time, life is too short to be pissing around with junk. Sorry if I offended any die hard Savage supporters but that is my personal experience.

is savage quilty going to hell? I have 5 mod 110's that are very accurate. but I just bought a savage 10 in 308 caliper from walmart
it will not shoot better than a 3 inch group I have tryed federal and 4 or 5 hand loads it will still only get the 3 inch group.
one load I shoot in my mod 110 308 is imr 4895 39.5 grain 168 Amax does 3 shots in one hole but gets the same 3 inch group in the fxp.
I have used 3 different scopes that work fine on other rifles. The only thing left for me to do is get another barrel.
years ago I had a Remington bdl 30-06 that was the same as this 308 I ended up puting a 243 barel on it and it shot very accruate after that.

I had the same problem with my 12 LRP in 260 Rem. After 3 months and three different barrels Savage said it was the stock. When I got it back I called HS-precision and asked them what to torque the screws. They said 65 inch lbs was minimum.

Then I got a Tubb bullet kit with different grits to lap the barrel. This is a slow process but it yielded excellent results. My first two three shot groups were both 1/2 " groups.

This rifle I use in NRA 600 yard matches.

Grayfox
.

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

It sounds like we need to do borescope inspections of our new rifles now before we leave the FFL....

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Sad, but true in some instances.

I hate for my first post to have a negative connotation, but I have been struggling with a model 12 LRP in .260Rem that I purchased in November 2012. It has never been a great shooter, hovering around 1.25MOA with some odd flyers on longer strings once past rounds six or seven. Overall I REALLY like my Savage LRP, but something has always been nagging me that something isn’t quite correct with it. Fast forward 250 rounds later (including two precision tactical matches) and while cleaning it this past weekend I noticed that at the muzzle end one of the grooves was extremely fouled by copper (looked like it had been copper plated) while the rest exhibited virtually no copper fouling. I contacted my gunsmith and he asked me to stop by so we could investigate with a borescope.

Aside from a lot of tool marks and chattering throughout the barrel the biggest issue was that the chamber had been reamed off axis relative to the bore. Although I didn’t exactly understand all the technical terms my gunsmith was using, looking through the bore scope and performing a 360 rotation at the end of the throat it was self evident that something wasn’t correct. In my barrel not all of the lands and grooves ended/started at the same point in the barrel. Some stopped short of the throat while others extended to it or slightly beyond (free bore area?). Anyway in anticipation of returning the barrel to Savage we removed the barrel from the action. Unfortunately according to the Savage customer service representative I spoke with this morning, that action completely voided my warranty. :(

Alas all has not been lost as I was able to procure a Shilen replacement barrel from Jim at NSS (super nice guy to deal with)!! During our conversation Jim inquired why I was changing barrels. After informing him of the situation, he stated that this sadly was not the first time he has heard of this issue.

As for the factory tube my gunsmith is going to chop it ~2” then rechamber for a 6.5 Creedmore to use for F-class, or mid range applications. A rebarreling and a “someday” future project about 18months ahead of schedule. :D

So the moral of the story it does appear that Savage is having some QC issues.

Just got the rifle back from my gunsmith with the new Shilen match grade barrel installed. Turns out it likes the same load as the previous barrel (41.8gr H4350 under a 140gr BTHP).

Shots 3-5 @100yds
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps38a50eba.jpg

Shots 6-8 @ 100yds
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps03e3068b.jpg

Shots 11-13 @ 300yds
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psfdec791e.jpg

It's a shame about the factory barrel, but at least there are other options available. Thanks to Shilen for directing me to Jim at NSS, and Jim for getting the new barrel shipped out so quickly. :becky:

First of all...I"m amazed at all the responses this thread provoked...and I'm grateful for all the advice. After about 150 rounds...
I finally started getting some decent 5 shot groups. They were very encouraging. Unfortunately...you can shoot five rounds and make
a bughole...but the next five might go 2/12 inches high and right. Obviously a scope problem I thought...but I changed out my Nikon Monarch for new, EGW rings and a high dollar Leupold Mark 4 and go the same results. Tonight I'm going to tear it all down and
check the bedding...then the torque. If it doesn't shoot then...I'm dumping it. I've got too many guns that shoot all day long to need
the extra aggravation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bunsen

Anyway in anticipation of returning the barrel to Savage we removed the barrel from the action. Unfortunately according to the Savage customer service representative I spoke with this morning, that action completely voided my warranty. :(

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I removed a barrel on a 223 i was having problems with but ending up re installing it and sending it to them. Don't think they knew the difference and they replaced the barrel.

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Originally Posted by guhunter

I removed a barrel on a 223 i was having problems with but ending up re installing it and sending it to them. Don't think they knew the difference and they replaced the barrel.

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The CS rep had already asked for my serial number and had my contact info. I didn't see a way out of that. At this point I'm not concerned as the original barrel will be turned into a 6.5 creedmoor and mated to another Savage action. The Shilen barrel isn't coming off until it's shot out in a few years.

I just picked up my new 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. This is not encouraging. I'll see how it shoots and look it over closely to see if there are any obvious problems. I have a case of Hornady 120 gr AMAX on the way.

Ken

I shot sub 1/4in groups with my LRP in 260. Running 142gr SMKs and H4350

TVP told my wife M12 6.5 creedmoor is very good , If you get a good one, and what time it was made,The one we have will put three 123 lapuas in same hole at 200 yds yes one hole. 142 smk same thing! I must have the first one made, or the best one. Ok im ready lets here it. I can here them fingers on the keys. Or mybe not its hard to tell on here somtime. Poeple get all .. You no. You need a $4000 B R Rifle to do that B.S. yes to shoot 10 in one hole, but not three !!!

Took the offending LRP back to the range today. The first three shots were incredibly far apart. I corrected and shot three sets of
bug holes before it started changing point of impact drastically. The other thing that's happening is...even though I'm only shooting
41.5 gr of H4350 behind 142 smk's...I'm blowing primer pockets. After 150 round down the pipe I've blown out 19 cases.
I'm baffled.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Took the offending LRP back to the range today. The first three shots were incredibly far apart. I corrected and shot three sets of
bug holes before it started changing point of impact drastically. The other thing that's happening is...even though I'm only shooting
41.5 gr of H4350 behind 142 smk's...I'm blowing primer pockets. After 150 round down the pipe I've blown out 19 cases.
I'm baffled.

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Based on this thread it sounds like you may have a bad barrel. Have you contacted Savage CS yet or had anybody check it with a borescope?

So I took a better look at my new Sav 12 LRP in 6.5 creedmoor. There is a black ring on the bolt face (blown primers?) and the barrel was very dirty prior to me cleaning it.This is a new rifle, just picked up after shipping to my FFL. The only bolt faces I have seen with the ring marks were old surplus military rifles. I have a case of Hornady 120 AMAX I will try the rifle out with when I get my scope mount. The ring marks have me concerned I may have gotten a rifle that will have problems.
Ken

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Captk

So I took a better look at my new Sav 12 LRP in 6.5 creedmoor. There is a black ring on the bolt face (blown primers?) and the barrel was very dirty prior to me cleaning it.This is a new rifle, just picked up after shipping to my FFL. The only bolt faces I have seen with the ring marks were old surplus military rifles. I have a case of Hornady 120 AMAX I will try the rifle out with when I get my scope mount. The ring marks have me concerned I may have gotten a rifle that will have problems.
Ken

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Why are you looking for a problem before you have even shot the rifle? Just because Savage made a lemon with the OP's rifle which will happen from time to time doesn't mean your rifle is going to have problems. Ring marks are probably due to machining of the bolt that didn't get polished out. No big deal is won't affect the way your rifle will shoot, if it had a blown or pierced primer from test firing it, you might possibly get actual cuts in the metal from the escaping gasses. I don't know of a manufacturer out there that will send you a clean rifle brand new, when you are building several hundred rifles a day they don't take time to remove all the residue from production. I'm not bashing you on inspecting and cleaning a new rifle but the proof of a rifle is always how it prints down range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taylorce1

Why are you looking for a problem before you have even shot the rifle? Just because Savage made a lemon with the OP's rifle which will happen from time to time doesn't mean your rifle is going to have problems. Ring marks are probably due to machining of the bolt that didn't get polished out. No big deal is won't affect the way your rifle will shot, if it had a blown or pierced primer from test firing it, you might possibly get actual cuts in the metal from the escaping gasses. I don't know of a manufacturer out there that will send you a clean rifle brand new, when you are building several hundred rifles a day they don't take time to remove all the residue from production. I'm not bashing you on inspecting and cleaning a new rifle but the proof of a rifle is always how it prints down range.

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Yes I agree, I'll need to fire it before I know if there is an issue or not. The ring on the bolt looks like carbon right where the primer would sit against the bolt face, a black ring on the bolt face. The metal is not cut. I don't expect a perfectly clean rifle after test firing, I also don't expect carbon rings on the bolt face. I'll clean it up and see what happens when I actually fire it.

here in fl. you see lots of t shirts that say (shut up and fish) lol.
blown primers tend to leave signs like pitts in the boltface around the firing pin.

Got out to the range this morning with my Savage 12 LRP I shot this just before the weather changed to a steady rain, 10 rounds at 100 yds using Hornady 120 gr AMAX. The rifle is fine, I have some 140 gr AMAX on order along with dies to reload my own. I have 120 gr Sierra MK and 123 GR AMAX ready to go once dies arrive.
I shot a total of 40 rounds, not bad first time out with the rifle. The rifle seems to be shrinking the group size the more I shot.

Ken

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...ps5945dab6.jpg

[QUOTE=Captk;184306]Got out to the range this morning with my Savage 12 LRP I shot this just before the weather changed to a steady rain, 10 rounds at 100 yds using Hornady 120 gr AMAX. The rifle is fine, I have some 140 gr AMAX on order along with dies to reload my own. I have 120 gr Sierra MK and 123 GR AMAX ready to go once dies arrive.
I shot a total of 40 rounds, not bad first time out with the rifle. The rifle seems to be shrinking the group size the more I shot.

Ken

You will love the 123 amax

2309 hits. Wow!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Captk

Got out to the range this morning with my Savage 12 LRP I shot this just before the weather changed to a steady rain, 10 rounds at 100 yds using Hornady 120 gr AMAX. The rifle is fine, I have some 140 gr AMAX on order along with dies to reload my own. I have 120 gr Sierra MK and 123 GR AMAX ready to go once dies arrive.
I shot a total of 40 rounds, not bad first time out with the rifle. The rifle seems to be shrinking the group size the more I shot.

Ken

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...ps5945dab6.jpg

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I don't mind saying, "I told you so!" Nice shootin!

123gr. lapua scenar 44gr. H-4350 cci br-2 3'' at 800 yards 3030 m.v. dont no bout 142 smk any more have to tryum. dont c um doing any better ???

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Originally Posted by 3rdeyemedia.us

I use the Hornady gauges to measure seating depth om my savage and seat .004 off the groves. Barely fits into the magazine, but shoots Nozzler HPBT competitions great.

1. Could be scope, scope rings, scope mounts.
2. Verify barrel is free floated and not hanging up somewhere.
3. verify action screws are torqued (try 35 lbs).
4. Try various factory loads to see what it likes and then build a reload based on that.

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You do realize you're replying to a comment posted April 2013, right?

The third eye sees all and is timeless. -;-)

Try factory Hornday ammo first, then report back

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Originally Posted by PhilC

You do realize you're replying to a comment posted April 2013, right?

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3rd eye had his own conversation on another old thread. Post count padding anyone? LOL, does not bother me. PS, have not shot my 6.5 enough to know if I like or hate mine.

Will be building on a 12fv action. Thinking of dropping in a chassis. Also need 6.5x24 scope to mount on it.

Actually think that was a spammer/phisher. Every thread he replied to had been dead for several years and he linked to his own site a few times which is nothing more than a click-bait site. Plus the fact that his username was his website URL raised a red flag as well.

So....I figure he's just a spammer and he and all his posts are gone now. We'll see if I get an email back asking why he was banned then go from there. That's the second one in a week.

A forum mod can be a thankless and underappreciated job.
Thanks Jim for all the behind scenes work you do to keep this forum great.