New to me Savage 219 hard to open

Since I love my Savage 24s, when I decided I wanted a 22 hornet I decided to find a Savage 219. I recently acquired a Utica-made Savage 219 in 22 Hornet. The gun appears to be in nice shape, although it is missing the front site (I suspect that it was removed when the current scope was mounted). This gun was inherited by someone who sold it to me and it has not been fired in at least 20 years. I oiled it, cleaned the barrel and looked it over. The only obvious issue is that the gun is hard to open. I can get it open with a certain amount of effort, but I am wary of putting too much stress on a pre-war gun. Its a little better with oil, but still pretty challenging to break open. Is this just a symption of sitting in the safe for decades, or should I be looking for some sort of problem? I just got it, so have not been to the range yet ad don't know if it even works (see no obvious reason why it would not).

I spend lots of time in the woods with a 22/20 gauge 24 deluxe and a 22/20 gauge 24 camper, so the 219 just feels right in my hands. Should be a fun gun in the field.

No problem, some are just harder to open than others.

I'm guessing you mean hard to open because it needs to be pushed far over to the side before the barrel breaks right?

I have a Savage model 430 20 gauge just like it, you have to push it far to either side before it breaks. I took it to my smith who looked at it and handed it back saying "thats just where it opens, can't do anything about that or it won't lock up tight if I take metal off the block". So I went with what it's like.

Mad Dog, the lever definitely has to be moved all the way over, but I also have to push down a bit harder on the barrel than I am comfy with. My model 24s just swing open without a fuss, but this seems sticky.

Hard situation, it's your call, you could take some of the resistance away by removing some of the metal on the rear block that holds the barrel tight when it's closed but that takes away from the strength of the receiver as well. I'd take it to a smith if you have one close by and see what he says. All the top lever is doing is pulling back that block on the bottom of your receiver when you look down into it, not sure if you can tighten up a spring to make it moved faster or if you would have to replace the block with one that had less metal. I've never really screwed around with my 219's or my 220's to often, some of them are like your 24 and open immediately and other open alot slower and take more force on the release lever.

Thanks, Mad Dog. I am not inclined to mess with this rifle if I can avoid it. When I have time, I will get it out to the range and see if things change at all with 50 rounds put through it and a bit more oil. If its a problem, it will go to a smith.

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Originally Posted by brewer12345

The only obvious issue is that the gun is hard to open. I can get it open with a certain amount of effort, but I am wary of putting too much stress on a pre-war gun.

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First of all, what model 219 do you have? Can you open it by pushing the lever to the left? Or only to the right?

Is it hard to get the lever to move far enough to release the bolt? Or does it release easily but the gun won't break?

I'd be inclined to remove the buttstock and have a look inside before going any further. Is there any sign of rust in there?

Maybe even dismount the barrel and soak the entire action in a 50-50 mix of paint thinner and ATF for a day or two. Old guns are often in need of that, due to congealed oil.

My $0.05 worth, having resurrected a couple dozen ancient crocks, including a nice 219 "A" model.

This is a 219, not 219A, etc. Made in Utica, which I understand to mean prewar. It only opens by pushing the lever to the right. The lever moves easily, its just that the gun is hard to get to break. Does this suggest a gunked-up action?

How do I remove the buttstock?

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Originally Posted by brewer12345

This is a 219, not 219A, etc. Made in Utica, which I understand to mean prewar. It only opens by pushing the lever to the right. The lever moves easily, its just that the gun is hard to get to break. Does this suggest a gunked-up action?

How do I remove the buttstock?

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Just like mine, then. If the lever moves easily the rear parts of the action probably are OK, but I'd look anyway. Any rust back there will eventually do permanent damage. The top lever is cocking the striker, as well as releasing the bolt, BTW.

The buttstock is held on with a through bolt from the rear. Take off the buttplate. It wants a large screwdriver. It may come very hard if the threads are rusted. If it just won't come, don't get too frisky. Do not use any penetrant from the rear. It will do nothing but spoil wood. The only way I know the get a badly siezed-up through bolt out is to make a guide sleeve and then drill the head off the through-bolt. Probably more that you want to tackle if you don't have a lathe to make the guide sleeve.

Try dismounting the barrel. It has a spring-loaded forestock, like most break-open shotguns. Grasp the forestock at the front and pull it away from the barrel. It may come hard if the latch is gunked-up or rusted. Once it snaps free, break the gun open and the barrel will come loose. It's only hooked on the pin at the front. See what you can see. The latch may need to be detached from the forestock and soaked or cleaned.

These guns should break very freely. Unlike a lot of doubles, you are not cocking the hammers by breaking the action. The only resistance is the ejector mechanism. Once you get it apart you will see how that works. Just two parts to it, other than the springs and the pins. My guess is that the ejector trip lever is sticking and wants freeing-up, or there's a lot of congealed oil on the steel "shoe" at the rear of the forestock. If just taking the forestock off frees it up, that's the only problem.

Thanks, Old Coach. I have already removed the forestock and its not a big deal. I did notice that the extractor mechanism seemed a bit sticky, so that is what I will start with. I won't have time to play with it until this weekend (dang busness travel), but when I do I will see if I can get the ejector mechanism to loosen up. When I put a spent shell in the chamber and closed the action, it dd not want to eject at first when I got it back open. I thought it might be due to the fact that I put a spent shell in rather than a new one, but now that you mention it that is consistent with a sticky extractor setup. That is the first thing I will try. Will let you know if that solves the problem.

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Originally Posted by brewer12345

This is a 219, not 219A, etc. Made in Utica, which I understand to mean prewar. It only opens by pushing the lever to the right. The lever moves easily, its just that the gun is hard to get to break. Does this suggest a gunked-up action?

How do I remove the buttstock?

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My 219 or should I say the 219 I had, was hard to push the barrel down after moving the lever. I always thought that awas due to the fact thet I was cocking the gun in the process. With a 7+# trigger I suspect it takes more force to cock than a 3# trigger. Probably wrong. Id still own today if it hadnt been for the trigger.

I had some fun with that gun and it had a few notches in the stock.

Coach mentioned about the cocking action when opening the action of the 219 type guns.

I have two double barrel guns. Gramps old Fox Sterlingworth and a Spanish made nice double w/ 2 sets of barrels.

In all the 219s, even the misbegotten 219L, the striker (or hammer in the B and L models) is cocked by the top lever, (OK side lever on the L model). The 219 is very similar to a whole family of "hammerless" single barrels from the New England makers - Hopkins and Allen, Iver Johnson, Harrington & Richardson, etc. They all share the same action layout with that pivoting bolt, and they use the top lever to cock. Fewer parts, cheaper to make.

Now, if you'd been talking about a Stevens 311 double, you'd be right - the opening action cocks the strikers. I hate my 311 for that characteristic more and more as I get older and more arthritic! Doubles cock by the opening action because they have two strikers (or hammers) and cocking from the lever gets mechanically complicated, (and more expensive). Not to mention doubling the force needed to move the lever.

Phil

Not to hijack this thread, but, I had a 219 chambered in 30-30 walk into the shop today.

It's in rough shape, (bore is excellent, very little pitting and about 40% blue and 50% color case visible) but shootable. What's it's value as a shooter? The elderly gent carrying it wants $300.00, (it was his first centerfire rifle) I have no idea what a reasonable offer might be. Thanks for the help. Paul

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Originally Posted by red caddy 51

Not to hijack this thread, but, I had a 219 chambered in 30-30 walk into the shop today.

It's in rough shape, (bore is excellent, very little pitting and about 40% blue and 50% color case visible) but shootable. What's it's value as a shooter? The elderly gent carrying it wants $300.00, (it was his first centerfire rifle) I have no idea what a reasonable offer might be. Thanks for the help. Paul

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Man, that's a hard one. Not much demand for them, except from single-shot collectors like me. They occasionally show up on Gunbroker and they do sell, but for around $350 when they're .30-30s in average shape. Figure another $50 for shipping and the transfer, and that makes the delivered price for the buyer about $400. Unless it's a particularly choice specimen, which you say it ain't. (Hornet versions go for $400+, because they're rare. There's one on GB now (listed as a 220) with a .25-20 barrel that I'm watching. They are very rare.)

If it's one of the L models with the lever on the side they're pretty much the red-headed stepchild. That was a poor relation to the original Utica-built "A" models.

I hate to put that old gent on the spot, because I'm in his shoes, (68 going on 100) but if you're buying it to resell, you'd have to offer him maybe $200, unless you have a buyer all lined up so it doesn't sit in your inventory for a year and a day.

I think I paid about $325 for mine, at a show, and it came with a 12 gauge barrel in the bargain. It's in above-average condition, it has a Redfield peep on it, and the shotgun barrel is nearly mint. But that was about 15 years ago.

Phil

Thanks OC,

One of the part time sales guys offered him $350.00 in trade, (store credit) he took it, so now it looks like I've got an over priced wall sitter for the forseeable future...

Thanks for taking the time to school me.

Paul

I folled with the rifle last night, including patially disassembling the ejector spring/release mechanism. I also got some Rem oil in the ejector works. It opens a little more easily now and it is definitely not the release/cocking lever that is the cause of the stickiness. The gun is in remarkably clean condition aside from some bluing wear on the barel, so it isn't the action. I will take it to the range as soon as I can track down some ammo and see if things loosen up once it is fired a bit. It has not been fired in at least 20 years, so I am hopeful that running some rounds through it will shake things up.

Sounds like it needs to be 'dry opened'--that is opened and closed many times without firing.

Take it apart and clean all the mating surfaces and lightly lube, I would suggest that grease would be better than oil. If any burrs are noted use a fine file/emery and remove.

Reassemble and then open/close 50 times or so, tomorrow do the same. I expect it will be better. Smith not needed, yet.