Another tight bolt?

Ok -- new brass from any manufacturer, loaded or not and my bolt closes just fine -- snug and smooth. Fire it once, resize it, trim it, and load it and it is significantly tighter, almost to the point of much too tight. I use a FL sizing die -- if this helps it seems like Lapua 1x fired is a little easier to close on than FC 1x fired, both shot out of my gun and using the same set of dies (Hornady Dimension). Please let me know what's going on so I can think about fixing the issue. Feel free to ask questions to get the info you need. My initial idea is this: when I pull the sizing ball back out of the die it is pulling out the shoulders a little bit therefore the angle is off making my shoulder too long -- the FC brass is softer and thinner therefore bends out a little more?? This is a standard 308 Shilen barrel and I am obviously a bit new to reloading. I measured cases before and after sizing and they were a bit longer after sizing, on average 3-6/1000ths -- I assume this is fairly normal though.

Screw your die down another 1/4 turn.

Try lubing your case necks with a bit of graphite powder or even case lube if you don't mind a bit of powder sticking to the necks. If this does not work screw your die down another 1/2 turn. Almost all dies are made to be screwed down a 1/2 turn after contacting the shell holder but just about everyone backs them out 3/4 turn, see where I am going here?
Slow typer I guess ;)

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Originally Posted by lwink

My initial idea is this: when I pull the sizing ball back out of the die it is pulling out the shoulders a little bit therefore the angle is off making my shoulder too long -- the FC brass is softer and thinner therefore bends out a little more??

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That is a possability. I have had this happen before. The cure was brushing the inside of the neck and lubing it.
Could also be the die is a little long, ran into that on occasion. Have found a few dies that did not size the body enough, usually at the base.


Steve

tommeboy an kslefty make a good point about screwing in the die. If it bottoms ot on the shell holder without a case in it, it still may "spring" the press alittle and not bottom with a case in it.

Steve

I think you guys may have it! After looking through my setup I think on this run the sizing die wasn't down far enough -- just looked and you can see the marks in the sizing wax that it didn't quite bottom out on the case. Shoot -- probably have to resize them all again? I only have about 10 loaded, probably shoot those the way they are and resize all the others again to get them right. Is that what you guys would do?

sounds good to me.

Steve

Your sizing die will never quite make a mark all the way to the bottom cause of the chamfer at the end of the sizing die but the closer the better in your case. If a Full length resize solves your problem you can back the die out in small increments to get the exact "feel" you like.

It is easy to get pretty tight headspace using a fired case as a gage. Did you headspace the rifle yourself? I noticed that I can deflect the case when setting the headspace if I am not careful.

I like to cam-over my press on my FL resizing die and use that case to set headspace. Then it it always easy to set up the dies the next time I need to FL resize the cases. This should result in minimum working (stretching) of the brass but always allow your hand loaded ammo to chamber freely. Note that you may not be able to fire factory ammo with this method as it may not chamber due to the tight headspace.
Regards,
Keith

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Originally Posted by kkeene

It is easy to get pretty tight headspace using a fired case as a gage. Did you headspace the rifle yourself? I noticed that I can deflect the case when setting the headspace if I am not careful.

I like to cam-over my press on my FL resizing die and use that case to set headspace. Then it it always easy to set up the dies the next time I need to FL resize the cases. This should result in minimum working (stretching) of the brass but always allow your hand loaded ammo to chamber freely. Note that you may not be able to fire factory ammo with this method as it may not chamber due to the tight headspace.
Regards,
Keith

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Headspacing was done with a gauge, loads factory ammo as well as new brass reloads with no issues, have done one batch before of Hornady 1x fired brass with these dies that seemed to work just fine, forgot about that in the original post.

I hoping that I just didn't get the sizer down tight enough this run and it's no big deal... we will see soon.

Do not be surprised if these are your best shooting handloads, I believe in tight fitting reloads but not so tight they would not work for hunting.

lwink,
It is a (common) die adjustment issue. The sizer ball isn't affecting your headspace (length from case base to datum line on the shoulder).

Think about what happens when you size the case. The die walls make contact with the sides of the case and squeeze the brass inward. Brass is elastic and it can't move backward (the shellholder stops it), so the case shoulder actuall moves FORWARD until it contacts the shoulder portion of the die. If the die is not screwed in far enough to make contact, you get a sized case with headspace longer than the fired case. The fix is to incrementally screw in the die until shoulder of the case hits the shoulder of the die , pressing it rearward. Keep adjusting until the sized case fits "right" in your chamber. In extreme cases, you may have to grind a little off either the bottom of the die or the shellholder to allow that to happen. This is easier to do with a headspace tool (like a Stoney point tool) which attaches to calipers so that you can actually measure how nuch you are bumping the shoulders each time you size.
Elkbane

If the inside of the neck is not lubed, the expander ball will most definitely pull the case shoulder forward. Been there and done that.

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Originally Posted by scratcherky

If the inside of the neck is not lubed, the expander ball will most definitely pull the case shoulder forward. Been there and done that.

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+1

Don't mean to hijack the thread. What would cause this using a Lee neck sizing die? I have the same problem with some cases. It's not the bullet seat I know for sure. any opinion's would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by tomme boy

Screw your die down another 1/4 turn.

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shoulders are off.......you need to adjust your resize die

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Originally Posted by possum1

Don't mean to hijack the thread. What would cause this using a Lee neck sizing die? I have the same problem with some cases. It's not the bullet seat I know for sure. any opinion's would be appreciated.

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case was to big to start with. were they fired in that rifle chamber? how many times were the reloaded?

this is happening in once fired case's fired in the same rifle. Is there a accurate way to measure the thickness of the rim's, thinking this may be the culprit??

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Originally Posted by possum1

this is happening in once fired case's fired in the same rifle. Is there a accurate way to measure the thickness of the rim's, thinking this may be the culprit??

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Seldom is the rim itself an issue. Generally the boltface is considerably larger in diameter than the cartridge rim.

There can be a few other culprits, the shoulder, the body or even the ejector. The fun part, finding the bugger.

The ejector is easy, if it pushes in to or slightly below the bolt face its not the problem. In rare instances the extractor can cause problems. A simple check, remove it then chamber a piece of brass.

"Feel" isn't the best way to determine a brass problem. You can dart board it by sizing more and hoping , but unless you using a bump die, with a FL die your also sizing the body and until it feels good you've bumped the shoulders way back. Remember, with a FL die in addition to bumping the shoulder your also reducing the body diameter at the same time. Of course measuring the amount of shoulder bump is most accurate way to check that.

Making a chamber cast, using a small hole gage/mic or gage pin would tell you if the neck is the problem. Without those things on hand the easiest way to check, sacrifice a piece of brass. Using one of the rough chambering pieces, first cut the neck off a just barely into the shoulder then chamber it. If it still chambers hard the neck and junction portion isn't the problem.

If its still rough, cut the same piece of brass off just behind the shoulder then try it. If it still chambers hard its a body issue, then you need a small base or a custom die to size the body more without additional shoulder bump.

Bill

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Originally Posted by BillPa

Without those things on hand the easiest way to check, sacrifice a piece of brass. Using one of the rough chambering pieces, first cut the neck off a just barely into the shoulder then chamber it. If it still chambers hard the neck and junction portion isn't the problem.

If its still rough, cut the same piece of brass off just behind the shoulder then try it. If it still chambers hard its a body issue, then you need a small base or a custom die to size the body more without additional shoulder bump.

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That makes a lot of sense -- will be giving that a try tonight before I take any further action!