First rifle.... coyote/deer/target rifle.... comments/help appreciated!

Hello, My name is Kyle and Im from SW Missouri. Ive been shooting my whole life and loved every minute of it. My first rifle was my dads first rifle, An Ithica model 49. I worked in Law enforcment for a bit but now help with the family business.
Ive built several Ruger 10/22 rifles and customized other .22's. Ive never owned or built a bolt action centerfire rifle, so I thought I would give it a go.

I want to build an all purpose rifle of sorts. I want to use it for deer, coyote, and target shooting. I have basic reloading skills and hope to develop them with this project.

So, I bought a savage 11 Hog Hunter

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...184408_421.jpg

current state of rifle if you dont want to read through

Ken Farrel 20moa base
cheap rings
cheap bushnell 3x-9x

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...162314_452.jpg

Sorry for bad pics...... cell phone.

I bought the rifle in .223 because it will be cheap to shoot/practice for now. I will post groups as I/gun progress so I can keep track of improvement.

I am going to buy a stock tomorrow, Im going to order the B&C medalist tactical. I talked to the folks at stocky's and they said they were a couple of weeks away still.

I am going to start saving for my barrel, think Ive decided on 243 winchester, Any other ideas?
I want to get the CDI DBM conversion..... will the 243 work in the AI magazines?


Thanks for all the help!
Thanks for the comments!

Best of luck with your first Savage build.

You might want to consider the 7mm-08. Same case as the 243, but reportedly the ballistic coefficient on the 7mm is very good.

Not trying to burst your bubble here, but you need to be a little more realistic with your intended use. A rifle built for target shooting is not going to be a gun you want to lug around from stand to stand during hunting season. My advise would be to be honest with yourself and decide which of those three things you plan to do the most or which of them you want the rifle best suited for and then build it specifically for that purpose. Trust me, you'll be a lot happier in the end as you'll have a rifle that excels in what it was built for rather than a rifle that really isn't ideal for any of the three roles you're using it for.

And with all the cheap bolt-guns on the market these days (Savage Axis, Ruger American, Remington 783, Marlin X7, Mossberg ATR, etc) you can get a second rifle for about the same money as you'll spend on a quality aftermarket stock.

The great thing about the Savage is you can always reconfigure by restocking or rebarreling if your original setup does not do best what you end up doing most with it. I've reconfigured several times on the same action. Good luck and have fun! If you decide to sell your 223 barrel let me know!

Going from 223 to 243 requires quite a few changes: Magazine, bolt head, bolt baffle, and of course the barrel itself. The barrel will be close to $300 and the bolt parts about $40 and from memory the magazine parts will add about another $40+ shipping on everything.

A 243 can be quite an effective weapon if you go with an 8 twist and shoot the 80-105gr VLD's. They are not as flat shooting as the lighter bullets but retain their energy a much longer way and (if legal) are fine for animals like deer and coyotes. If you can hit a coyote at 250+ yards in the vitals, then shot placement on a deer will be no problem whatsoever. Unfortunately my nanny state does not allow for rifle hunting in deer season, so I am lobbing 250gr bullets from a rifle barreled shotgun...

Shilen, Mc Gowan Lilja are very well known and respected names and then there are some of the newer players Criterion, and Shaw - (which is possibly not a "true" match barrel maker). The advantage with Shaw is simply volume, you seldom have to wait too long. But I would rather wait once than live with issues later....

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

Not trying to burst your bubble here, but you need to be a little more realistic with your intended use. A rifle built for target shooting is not going to be a gun you want to lug around from stand to stand during hunting season. My advise would be to be honest with yourself and decide which of those three things you plan to do the most or which of them you want the rifle best suited for and then build it specifically for that purpose. Trust me, you'll be a lot happier in the end as you'll have a rifle that excels in what it was built for rather than a rifle that really isn't ideal for any of the three roles you're using it for.

And with all the cheap bolt-guns on the market these days (Savage Axis, Ruger American, Remington 783, Marlin X7, Mossberg ATR, etc) you can get a second rifle for about the same money as you'll spend on a quality aftermarket stock.

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I appreciate the honesty. however, I cannot afford to build multiple rifles. I will just have to compromise a little in some areas to have a multi purpose rifle.

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Originally Posted by pk01

The great thing about the Savage is you can always reconfigure by restocking or rebarreling if your original setup does not do best what you end up doing most with it. I've reconfigured several times on the same action. Good luck and have fun! If you decide to sell your 223 barrel let me know!

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appreciate the support. Will certainly keep you in mind when I sell the barrel. If I do not go with the 243 I will probably still replace the barrel with a higher quality 223 barrel.

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Going from 223 to 243 requires quite a few changes: Magazine, bolt head, bolt baffle, and of course the barrel itself. The barrel will be close to $300 and the bolt parts about $40 and from memory the magazine parts will add about another $40+ shipping on everything.

A 243 can be quite an effective weapon if you go with an 8 twist and shoot the 80-105gr VLD's. They are not as flat shooting as the lighter bullets but retain their energy a much longer way and (if legal) are fine for animals like deer and coyotes. If you can hit a coyote at 250+ yards in the vitals, then shot placement on a deer will be no problem whatsoever. Unfortunately my nanny state does not allow for rifle hunting in deer season, so I am lobbing 250gr bullets from a rifle barreled shotgun...

Shilen, Mc Gowan Lilja are very well known and respected names and then there are some of the newer players Criterion, and Shaw - (which is possibly not a "true" match barrel maker). The advantage with Shaw is simply volume, you seldom have to wait too long. But I would rather wait once than live with issues later....

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that's why I liked the 243. heavy enough for Deer but not too hard on coyotes. from what I've read you can load them for almost anything. thanks for the help!

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Originally Posted by rimfirekyle

I appreciate the honesty. however, I cannot afford to build multiple rifles. I will just have to compromise a little in some areas to have a multi purpose rifle.

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Who says you have to compromise though? Lets look at your little project here in a little closer detail and crunch the numbers...

Hog Hunter in .223 = paid for
B&C Medalist Tactical Stock = $240.00 (Stocky's price)
Aftermarket Pre-Fit .243 Barrel = $300 and up depending on brand
CDI Bottom Metal = $210.00
AI Magazine = $75-80 each

If you don't include the price of the stock (figuring you'll want that no matter what) you're dumping a minimum of $585.00 more into the gun for the barrel, bottom metal and one 5-round magazine. You can buy an Axis and a good scope to serve as your deer rifle for that and still have a good bit of money left over.

You already have the .223 which you can use for coyote hunting and target shooting pretty much as-is. The .223 is (or should I say was) relatively cheap to shoot at the range, and with 50-60 grain bullets it makes for a fine coyote round. Throw a decent scope and your new stock on it and go to town! Now go out and buy yourself an Axis in a suitable deer cartridge for where you live (.243, 7mm-08, .308, .25-06, .270, .30-06 - whatever floats your boat) for under $300 (less than you'd spend on a quality aftermarket barrel) and spend another $100-200 to scope it with a decent 3-9x40mm (less than the cost of the CDI bottom metal). Heck, for that matter you could just buy an Axis package rifle for around $350 and save a little more coin even though the scope won't be nearly as nice, but it will get you through until you can afford to upgrade.

My point here is that people dream up these compromise builds when they really don't have to, and in doing so really handicap themselves in the long run. Usually they're compromising because money is tight and they don't think they can afford another gun when the truth is they'll end up spending two to three times as much building one gun than it would cost to buy a second. Why? Because as pk01 noted you'll end up spending a lot of money building it the first time only to find you don't quite like it, so then you spend more money changing this or that and in the end it still doesn't quite suit your needs. This madness continues until one day when you finally realize "hey, why don't I just get another rifle so I can have one dedicated for this and one dedicated for that and I won't have to screw around with trying to find a happy medium anymore."

When the budget is tight and you're trying to stretch your dollar (as it sounds you are trying to do) you have to think things through with a little common sense and logic. Use your money now to buy two complete guns - each with it's own dedicated purpose. No they're not going to be EXACTLY what you want in the beginning, but it's a much better starting point than trying to make one gun fill multiple roles that are drastically different in terms of how the gun needs to be configured. Down the road as money allows you can modify one or both as you see fit to better tailor it to how you're using it.

Trust me, I've seen it time and time and time again in the 10 years I've been running this site. And besides, what's better....one gun or two? Not trying to dissuade you from your build, just saying don't rush into it, think it through, and do it the better way as I guarantee you you'll be happier and more satisfied with the results in the end.

Dang, I really appreciate your comments. I will take your advice, and build a more specialized rifle. I guess I got a little over zealous and excited.
Thanks to forcing me to be a little more realistic.

To clarify, I do have other lever action rifles. I
normally hunt deer with one of those.

I will build toward Varmint/Target.

I did order my B&C medalist tectical today.

Now I will start hunting for a 243 barrel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

Not trying to burst your bubble here, but you need to be a little more realistic with your intended use. A rifle built for target shooting is not going to be a gun you want to lug around from stand to stand during hunting season. My advise would be to be honest with yourself and decide which of those three things you plan to do the most or which of them you want the rifle best suited for and then build it specifically for that purpose. Trust me, you'll be a lot happier in the end as you'll have a rifle that excels in what it was built for rather than a rifle that really isn't ideal for any of the three roles you're using it for.

And with all the cheap bolt-guns on the market these days (Savage Axis, Ruger American, Remington 783, Marlin X7, Mossberg ATR, etc) you can get a second rifle for about the same money as you'll spend on a quality aftermarket stock.

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This is just one opinion but I believe you can have your cake and eat it too. Yes if you decide to excel in one area you probably want to make a dedicated rifle for that disapline but if you are just dabbling in each of the three areas you mentioned varmints, target, deer hunting it is very doable with one rifle. It just so happens that the 243 is one of the best for doing all three.

Where you are just starting out I would especially recommend an all around build. If you are like me you won't really know what direction you want to go until you have a capable rifle in your hands.

A varmint tapered 26" 243 barrel can easily be used for targets, deer, varmints, and coyotes. Will it be a couple of pounds heavier than you would like for hunting deer? Yes but unless you are really small and weak it's not a big deal. This is about the only downside I can think of and if you are really worried about it buy a 243 factory sporter contour for about $75 (here on the classifieds section) or a 260, 7mm-08, or 308 barrel for that matter which would give you a little more punch for deer anyway. When deer season rolls around switch the barrel in about 20 minutes and away you go!

As far as targets go unless you are doing benchrest you don't need a dedicated rifle to compete. There are getting to be more and more shoots where you can enter just for fun with where you go to multiple stations and shoot at short and long range from a variety positions. A varmint contour will be very effective.

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Originally Posted by redman

A varmint tapered 26" 243 barrel can easily be used for targets, deer, varmints, and coyotes. Will it be a couple of pounds heavier than you would like for hunting deer? Yes but unless you are really small and weak it's not a big deal. This is about the only downside I can think of and if you are really worried about it buy a 243 factory sporter contour for about $75 (here on the classifieds section) or a 260, 7mm-08, or 308 barrel for that matter which would give you a little more punch for deer anyway. When deer season rolls around switch the barrel in about 20 minutes and away you go!.

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Stockysstocks said they would hopefully soon be carrying barrels with titanium sleeves that would be very light weight. I am going to see if this becomes a reality before I buy a barrel. This will help save weight.

Just be aware, using the 243 for coyotes I hope you ar not planning on selling the furs. The 243 will devastate a coyote. I have done it and know this from experience. You can minimize this by using solids, if legal, but take a chance of wounded dogs getting away.

If fur selling isn't a goal, then the Sierra 85gr Gameking BTHP bullet, will do an awesome job on deer and yotes to 300yds on deer and 500+ on yotes. On yotes and the 243, if you can hit the vitals, regardless of the range it will kill them. For that long of a shot heavier bullets are better, but do drop more.

Personally, unless you have lots of money, the factory Savage barrels will do everything you ask. By that I mean the 1-9.25 twist 22" barrels. They will easily stabilize bullets from 58gr to 105gr. Bullets like the VLD's do require faster twists, but unless you're gonna shoot past 400yds on a regular basis, I don't see the need. But that's me.

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Originally Posted by handirifle

Just be aware, using the 243 for coyotes I hope you ar not planning on selling the furs. The 243 will devastate a coyote. I have done it and know this from experience. You can minimize this by using solids, if legal, but take a chance of wounded dogs getting away.

If fur selling isn't a goal, then the Sierra 85gr Gameking BTHP bullet, will do an awesome job on deer and yotes to 300yds on deer and 500+ on yotes. On yotes and the 243, if you can hit the vitals, regardless of the range it will kill them. For that long of a shot heavier bullets are better, but do drop more.

Personally, unless you have lots of money, the factory Savage barrels will do everything you ask. By that I mean the 1-9.25 twist 22" barrels. They will easily stabilize bullets from 58gr to 105gr. Bullets like the VLD's do require faster twists, but unless you're gonna shoot past 400yds on a regular basis, I don't see the need. But that's me.

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I appreciate the comment! I know a 243 can be hard on dogs. I have used my fathers 6mm rem which I imagine has very similar results. I do not intend to sell fur. I do skin and tan my own coyotes. I just keep em, for what what? I dont really know. haha. I do not have lots of money. But, I will save and build slowly. Im pretty creative on ways to come up with extra money so it wont take that long.

The 1-9.25 twist will be fine for me as I do not see myself needing to lead any heavier bullets that 105gr, I would like to shoot farther than 400yards and will have to research some more before I make any decisions on barrel.

Ken Farrel Base to arrive tuesday or wednesday.

I am in the process of a Stevens 200 .223 build, that I plan to shoot in the Factory Hunter class as well as shoot coyotes with it in the fall/winter. I had a Tikka T-3 with a 1:9 twist, and with a 60gn V-Max it was devastating on coyotes and shot .4xx groups at 100 yards. I fully expect the Savage/Stevens 1:9 twist to stabilize the 60gn bullet just the same. Don't be afraid of taking coyotes out to 300 yards. Anything further than that, the hunter in me comes out, and I sneak a little closer...BTW I am a rimfire nut that is making the switch as well...

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Originally Posted by redman

Where you are just starting out I would especially recommend an all around build.

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My opinion as well. Also, remember that when you're doing a custom build you're getting what you specifically want. So you spend a little extra here and there, so what. I searched and searched for what I exactly wanted from an off the shelf rifle and never found it. The Hog is a great shell to build on.

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Originally Posted by redman

Yes but unless you are really small and weak it's not a big deal.

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Exactly. Been hunting all my life and don't remember ever complaining that my rifle was too heavy.:smile-new:

I ordered my base on friday and expected to get tuesday or wednesday, but to my suprise it was here on monday! It looks awesome. Pics soon

Got my Ken Farrel Base installed. Cheap rings, cheap Bushnell scope, off brand bipod. Scope rings, scope, and bipod I jad laying around. Just using these temporarily.
Range report this weekend.

Waiting on B&C Medalist Tactical and CDI DBM kit.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...162314_452.jpg

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Originally Posted by rimfirekyle

Got my Ken Farrel Base installed. Cheap rings, cheap Bushnell scope, off brand bipod. Scope rings, scope, and bipod I jad laying around. Just using these temporarily.
Range report this weekend.

Waiting on B&C Medalist Tactical and CDI DBM kit.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...162314_452.jpg

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Can't Wait!!!! Honestly, I've had mine for a while now and am itchin' to shoot it. Also am curious about the Bot. met. you're puttin' on it.

How do you like the base? seems a little taller than the egw.

This is my first savage so I do not have anything to compare the height of the Ken Farrel base too. But, the height works very, very well for me. Feels very comfortable.

I should have the CDI DMB Kit soon. But, my stock wont be here for several weeks. And, I will still have to send it off to be inletted when I do get it. So, it will be a while before I know how it works.

Do yourself a favor and tighten your bipod legs until it requires some force to open and close the legs.

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Originally Posted by stangfish

Do yourself a favor and tighten your bipod legs until it requires some force to open and close the legs.

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Much better! thanks.


Took the rifle to the range today. I was very impressed! I was shooting crap PMC 223 ammo and still managed to get 1moa groups on most of them. I shot 20x3 shot groups. I will post pics in the morning of my best group and my average groups.

My 223 love Black Hills 52 grn Match, sob MOA at 200 yards. Also the Hornady 55 grn steel match ammo is real accurate for the price. Usually $19 for 50.

Of course if you can find any ammo now you are very lucky.

Good to hear you're Hog is shootin' well, makes me feel better about my purchase. I have the .308 though. Lookin' at the Medalist myself and was wondering if the one your ordered is a blind magazine version or if it already has a cutout and CDI (I'm assuming that's where you are sending yours) is tweeking the cutout for their BM. Not many of those Medalists around, must be flying off the shelves.

I've found one but the color is not what I need but I'm duracoating anyway. The Medalist I found is set up for blind magazine...I'm assuming (gonna call CDI tomorrow) that the extra material can be CNC'd out to match their BM.

Had you considered the Choate before selecting the B&C? I don't get that "extra space" behind the safety on the Choate, it's supposedly "normal"...doesn't look right to me.

Nothing wrong with PMC. If you want crap try some American Eagle junk....

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Nothing wrong with PMC. If you want crap try some American Eagle junk....

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+1 for the PMC 223 ammo. It's good stuff and cheap. You can reload the brass wich makes it way more cheaper than the crappy steel ammo. Anybody that shoots more than 5 boxes of ammo a year is crazy if they don't reload ammo. You can get a lee starter set for $150 or less. (sorry for the mini rant)

I just deprimed some factory Hornady ammo and the primer pocked is all mashed as if they tried to crimp the primer which I know for a fact they don't do with hunting ammo. Hornady is losing points in my book, big time. This stuff was nearly $24/20

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Originally Posted by brasse

My 223 love Black Hills 52 grn Match, sob MOA at 200 yards. Also the Hornady 55 grn steel match ammo is real accurate for the price. Usually $19 for 50.

Of course if you can find any ammo now you are very lucky.

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I might have to try and find a couple boxes...... Just to hold me over untill I swap my barrel... Thanks for the tip!

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Originally Posted by TraverseSavage

Good to hear you're Hog is shootin' well, makes me feel better about my purchase. I have the .308 though. Lookin' at the Medalist myself and was wondering if the one your ordered is a blind magazine version or if it already has a cutout and CDI (I'm assuming that's where you are sending yours) is tweeking the cutout for their BM. Not many of those Medalists around, must be flying off the shelves.

I've found one but the color is not what I need but I'm duracoating anyway. The Medalist I found is set up for blind magazine...I'm assuming (gonna call CDI tomorrow) that the extra material can be CNC'd out to match their BM.

Had you considered the Choate before selecting the B&C? I don't get that "extra space" behind the safety on the Choate, it's supposedly "normal"...doesn't look right to me.

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I got mine for the Blind magazine. CDI said that this was preffered. They said the bottom metal will be recessed slightly into the stock.

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Nothing wrong with PMC. If you want crap try some American Eagle junk....

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Apparently I underestimated PMC... I did shoot some American Eagle.... It grouped at about 3.5-6 inches. terrible

In my opinion, PMC brass is at least as good as Remington and better than Winchester, federal and PPU. I have not yet owned any Lapua brass, would like to one day...