new and dirty?

or somthing else.
The issue has been passed onto Savage but I wouldn't mind some opinions on the condition of this bolt. Due to local laws I do not have the gun yet and didn't have the camera with me the day I went to do the paper work. Will be heading back out with the camera this week to take some pics of the rifle, which is in similar condition. This post is not aimed at Savage or any one else but simply to see if any one has seen a new gun in this condition. At this stage I am trying to work out if this is "dirty" (I have seen a few reports of some being shipped like this) or if some other "issue" has happened to this rifle before I bought it as new :)
Best to open the pics and look at them in full size. Of course, I have cut them back to make it faster. More detail on the higher res pics and the bolt looks a lot worse in real life.
It's not just the bolt either ;)


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Looks like the shop stored it in a humidifier. Bolt face is gonna have brass on it as they are test fired. nothing a lil gun oil won&#39;t fix, it&#39;s a savage so i know it&#39;s for shooting not showing off anyway. :P

I was told 5 proof rounds were fired. I have yet to see any gun have a bolt face like that after 5 rounds, or having rusted like this..
there are other issues which I do not have pics of yet. like the action screws being rounded a bit like it has been over torqued or a worn key used.
New = new. Not "new = you have to remove rust and fix". I can understand proof firing and it being a bit dirty. I do not think this is what we are talking about. I guess, in your opinion this is acceptable and or normal. Great :) I am after opinions so we have one vote for accpetable/normal/seen before for a new gun.

Welcome to the site.

From what I see in the photo that is normal for any NEW gun. ( Savage, Remington, Ruger or anything else) A proof load is not like your standard load, it is fired at super high pressures to "proof" the action, barrel.

Hi,

#1. Welcome.

#2. Where are you?

That thing looks like it was shipped on a VERY slow boat to china, through several storms, and...... the boat sank.

I have purchased several "NEW" Savage&#39;s and have never seen a bolt rusted like that.

Good luck.
C&#39;ya, John.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AshAust

I was told 5 proof rounds were fired. I have yet to see any gun have a bolt face like that after 5 rounds, or having rusted like this..
there are other issues which I do not have pics of yet. like the action screws being rounded a bit like it has been over torqued or a worn key used.
New = new. Not "new = you have to remove rust and fix". I can understand proof firing and it being a bit dirty. I do not think this is what we are talking about. I guess, in your opinion this is acceptable and or normal. Great :) I am after opinions so we have one vote for accpetable/normal/seen before for a new gun.

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+1....IMHO, The rust on the bolt or the wear ring on the bolt in the last pic didn&#39;t come from 5, or 20 for that matter, proofing shots. Poor storage or cleaning habits maybe (shot and cycled a bunch, likely), but not from being shot 5 times...regardless of the load. I &#39;ve never seen a bolt face like that on any new gun I&#39;ve bought. Wouldn&#39;t be the first gun someone tried to pass off as "new"....won&#39;t be the last if that ends up being the case. I&#39;d send some pics to Savage, get their opinion. I&#39;d be interested to hear what their quality assurance people at Savage would have to say.

I&#39;m betting money that that is not a NIB rifle. Hell, my own guns that have been hunted hard with and don&#39;t look that bad.

I live on an island 300 miles from the mainland in Alaska.

The only time I have seen guns in similier are when they come off of commercial fishing boats after having sat in the boat for months or years.

Something not right here. I have never purchased any gun in this type of condition. I would check the bore personally.

Neal

&#39;Due to local laws&#39;...

Where do you live?

I would say PASS on this one. It looks like it has been used and maybe returned to the store.

If it&#39;s in the US, they may be willing to let you view their FFL log to see that it has not been &#39;out&#39; and then logged back in.

Ask to see a copy of the invoice where they bought it. It may have been returned to a distributor and then shipped back out.

Mine was the same way. I just bought it last week. I was thinking to myself when I was cleaning it I wonder if this thing is a return. I was a little worried, but let me tell you, that gun is a shooter!!! Clean it up, and don&#39;t worry about it. Mine did&#39;nt have any rust on the bolt though.

I am in Australia. Rifle was shipped to the dealer 5-6 weeks ago. The dealer is interstate and will not discuss it other than my original call once my local agent and I opened the box and found this. It&#39;s not just the bolt but as my next lot of photos will show (in a few days) quite a few things pointing to it not being as described.
The bore is dirty with powder with a significant muzzle ring. The flutes have black residue that looks to be left over from grinding.
Over here we pay (in AUD) 40-70% more than the RRP for a Savage. So it&#39;s not like this was a cheap gun and I got the last "cheap" batch. If ( as I suspect it will) this gun goes back I cannot justify paying any more than I did for this one (which I would have to) AND it is likely I will not be able to get a 1 in 7 .223 again. OTOH, I am 99% of the way to just shipping this rifle right back to the dealer :(

I have seen the bolts on Savages look this way , And it cleans right off I don&#39;t know what it is ,I thought it was a pertictive coating or something like that, Not pickin on sacage But the Boxes with that egg crate packing are kinda cheep and would not take much mosture very well . Just My 2 cents

Looks like it wasnt cleaned well after the test firing, then put back in the box that way.

If you havent bought it yet, just walk away if thats what you wanna do. If it looks older than just a test firing the dealer you&#39;re using should understand why you&#39;re questioning it, and hopefully wants to find the answer as bad as you do.

I had a remington that looked just like that and it had been ordered from the distrabuter. It cleaned un and shot like a remington. (Just OK)

I have "bought" it but I can get a refund, my bank is quite happy to even if the dealer is not willing.
It was interstate and sold as new, so I was not expecting this condition.
IF it IS new, then I am sure Savage will be looking at a resolution with me. This is the ideal outcome.
That I have a new but dirty rifle.

Anyone seen one with rolled action screws? Or that much bedding in on the bolt?

Spent 15 years in the "marine" industry. To me, that looks
like "salt " oxidation. Wet ships hold, or exposed to coastal
salt atmosphere. Does the box appear to have moisture stains.?

No, the box seems fine.
Nice, dry and stiff.

What about the wearing in of the contact surfaces?
Are they cycled that much at the factory?
Should the bolt and outer surfaces be dry?

not new. send it back and get your cash back. at the very least someone has removed it from the stock. also that red crap around the primer mark on the bolt face appears to be primer sealant. the only ammo manufactures that i know of who use red sealant all make military ammo, to my knowledge savage does not use military ammo to proof fire. sorry bro you got scammed.

No signs of brass or powder in the bolt. Minimal wearing on contact surfaces.
Swabbed with solvent and acetone to check and it&#39;s quite clean. Not spotless. It does not looke like it has been cleaned of the normal factory left overs from being made.
Going to try and see the rifle tomorrow to take pictures and check it properly.
Seems like we are left with two options. Rifle has only been in the country for a few weeks.



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Have your gun dealer clean it for you and then inspect it. If you&#39;re not happy with it, send it back. I&#39;m sure that savage would not want you to buy the rifle if you are not satisfied with it. That rifle has come a long ways. It might not have been properly cleaned after test-firing. Your gun dealer should have no problem doing that for you, in fact i&#39;m suprised he did&#39;nt offer in the first place.

Am I the only one who noticed the extended leg on the front baffle? I didn&#39;t think Savage was still using those.

Also, stainless shouldn&#39;t rust up like that. Almost looks like a chromemoly bolt head that got mixed in with the SS ones before bluing, but then why isn&#39;t the rest of it just as rusty?

Something is definitely amiss here.

SN should give some clue as to build date

Went and took more pics on monday and I will edit and upload some later on.

The issue is not cleaning the rifle but things like rust. The dealer is interstate (1400kms away) and should have got this fixed when he had it. I will be resolving some issues with him soon.

Stainless WILL corrode and rust like this. The grades that don&#39;t are not really suitable for Firearms.

Build date was Feb, shipped in June and has been in the country for 6-7 weeks now.


I had a good look on Monday and took more photos. I am quite sure the gun left the factory like this. Minimal wearing in on the action rails, trigger sear and other parts. No signs of brass in the action and minimal copper on the feed ramp. I wiped the bolt over with Acetone and gun cleaning solvent. None of the black comes off and (even more interesting) the "carbon" in the bolt face does not shift. Will upload more pics later. I think the bolt was put away without being wiped over which has caused the rust and pitting. As for the rest of the stuff on it, I have no idea. Now that I have had a REALLY close look I cannot see the gun as having been fired much at all.

Waiting for a reply from Savage and the importer about this. Been a few days now but I am sure they are really busy.

Before you get your panties in a wad.....I can explain some of the stuff you are seeing.
1. The bolt heads are heat treated 41L40, not stainless steel and thus have a dark discoloration in the bolt face. They are tumbled in a vibratory tumbler with ceramic media to deburr and polish the exterior. The recessed bolt face will almost never clean up to the finish on the outside of the bolt head, as the media is too large to reach in the corners, especially on a .378" dia. bolt recess.( I have a whole drawer full &#39;em, they all look the same)
2. The red stain on the bolt face IS from the proof load. The proof loads have red Dykem applied to the case head for a purpose. Besides the proof mark on the barrel, it leaves that tattle tale stain on the bolt face, it signifies that the rifle was proofed with that bolt head.
3. The scuff marks are from cycling the action, how else do you proof and function fire? Typically, stainless steel guns are assembled with very little or no lubrication at this point and will show friction points. Take a pristine bolt assembly and insert it in a receiver and cycle 20 times, now it looks like what you have.
4.The small amount of rust on the bolt body probably came from someone with acidic fingers. The bolt bodies are not stainless steel, but made from 1020 tubing that has been case hardened. While not rust proof, it is rust resistant from the hardness.
5. Savage does not "clean " any guns after proof and function firing, other than wipe off the exterior with a rag to remove grease and finger prints.

With maybe the exception of the tiny bit of rust, all other aspects of this rifle are normal. Do I think this gun was mis-repersented.....no. What would I do if it were mine? I would give it a thorough cleaning(you should do that anyway to a new firearm) and use some WD-40 and 0000 steel wool to remove the rust. Grease the bolt lugs and the cocking cam.
Then I would quit whining and enjoy my new toy. ;D

My "panties" are quite fine, thanks for taking an interest in them though ;)


1. The crap in the bolt face looks and feels like built up layers. the same as carbon. The lower res pics I uploaded do not show a great deal of detail about that. The RAW files are a lot clearer. It also has soft primer sealant type residue on one part of the out edge of the face.

3. The bolt body shows a lot of wearing. A lot more than minimal cycling which in addition to the other items pointed towards the concerns I have about this gun.

4. There is rust and pitting on the bolt body. In a few areas, more than I have shown. Now, this can be polished to fix some of it but not the pitting.

5. Yet very few are supporting that what I have is expected from a new Savage. Savage told me it was not. One of the largest dealers over here checked all the Savages they had, my local dealer (who gets them in) does not think this is normal, the importer does not seem to think this is normal and no one other than you has yet said they have actually seen this on another Savage. Yes, the crap in the bolt faces (but other than you no one else has said they have seen it this bad).

The current price for these guns is $1800 or so (average price). I was lucky to pay less than this. Should I expect to have rust on a new gun? Should I accept this as normal?
Are you saying it is quite normal to have a new Savage delivered in this state? With a fair bit of pitting and rust?
Savage didn&#39;t seem to think this was the case when I spoke to them on the phone BEFORE I asked on here ;)

I started this thread to try and work out what has gone on and to see who else had seen this. I had never had a new gun delivered like this nor would I expect it. IF the gun had been used it would have gone right back. As I said in my post before it looks to me it simply left the factory like this. I have a very limited period of time in which I can easily return this gun.

If asking about rust on a new gun, rolled action screws or the issues I have noticed is "whining" then I am quite happy to be considered a whinger. I wouldn&#39;t accept a car with scratches, I wouldn&#39;t buy a new tool with rust and I know of very few people who would expect this to be normal ;) Even Savage has so far told me this is not normal. so asking on here to see if this could possibly have been shipped in this state in the hope the gun HAD been and following through once I had a chance to look at it more has allowed me to work out what seems to have gone on. I feel better the dealer has not (it seems) done the wrong thing. Now I am waiting for a reply from the importer and Savage to work out what they want me to do.

FYI, 28 day waiting period before I can pick it up. no playing for some time yet.

Looks and sounds like a USED gun to me. From your photos and description, you got snookered! :-\

My Initial thoughts were that this was used for a short period. After having another really good look I don&#39;t think it is.
No residue in the bolt body, no signs of use in the action (other than minimal) and little wear on the action rails and trigger sear.
Maybe a primer backed out on a proof load and it was put away without a decent wipe over.

Fred supports this (the condition) as not being that odd and if anyone knows it should be him.

Got a reply from Savage and they will be sorting it out and find that this is not usual or normal in any way.


What I wanted to know was had others seen one like this from new. I would not accept a second hand rifle. I would accept a dirty gun OR a gun that had some issues which were being sorted out. This is where I am at the moment, a gun that is not used but has issues which are being sorted out :)

Has anybody seen what looks like the result of a blown primer on a new action? The ring on the bolt face is not just discolored it is eroded slightly and you can catch your fingernail in it. Rest of action is tight and looks/feels brand new. 243 VLP with DBM. Was this caused by Savage blowing a primer and not realizing it?

Thanks,
Keith

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I don&#39;t care if it&#39;s odd or not, if it was mine it would be going back. Case Closed.

Just $.02 from a new guy around here... It sound like a returned or traded rifle, the original description was "as new" not NIB. (new in box) leading me to think used and subjectively graded by the seller.

It&#39;s your call, did you get what you paid for or not. Good Luck and be glad it is coming by way of a dealer who is willing to make it right.

Garett

I think, if I were you: I&#39;d check to see if your dealer happens to have a half used jar of Vasoline, sitting next to his cash register[where he was to put your $$$.
Pissing and moaning just ain&#39;t gonna fix your problem. Either clean it up and shoot it, or walk away from the deal. Your making far too big a deal out of something you should have taken care of sooner[see prior sentence].

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonsign

I think, if I were you: I&#39;d check to see if your dealer happens to have a half used jar of Vasoline, sitting next to his cash register[where he was to put your $$$.
Pissing and moaning just ain&#39;t gonna fix your problem. Either clean it up and shoot it, or walk away from the deal. Your making far too big a deal out of something you should have taken care of sooner[see prior sentence].

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Moon,

I was not "pissing and moaning", I simply asked a question. I do not appreciate your uninformed and rude comments.

Keith

Moonsign, I have not read this entire thread but I can&#39;t see any need for this kind of personal attack. Please keep it civil.

I am with sharpshooter on this one. I have seen more than a few new rifles from various makers that looked like that or worse and some that looked cleaner. The odds of the replacement being the same are pretty high, unless someone cleans it for you before delivery. I have received brand new bolt heads from parts suppliers that looked similar to that one less the red stuff.

The only major issue is the rust pitting. Most likely what Sharpshooter said, someone touched it and it wasn&#39;t wiped clean, the rust built up over time in the box.

How about asking for a replacement bolt body where it is rusted and a new set of action screws? pretty cheap parts and easy to ship, especially if you will have to pay more for the replacement rifle if you decide not to keep that one.

I may have caused some confusion by recycling an older, but similar themed thread - sorry about that. My first post is on page two with close up pictures of the bolt face. I am not concerned about the discoloration, but I do not like the primer shaped ring of erosion. I was just asking if anybody had ever seen a bolt face on a new rifle with erosion from what looks like a blown primer.

BTW - The seller is making this right, getting a new stripped bolt to swap out.

Thanks, Keith