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Hi, I am thinking about buying one of these rifles but before I do I have a few questions. First how do they shoot with factory ammo ? I am a hunter so a 3 shot group is sufficient. How much does the 243 actually weigh and where can i buy one for less than list price?
I am wanting a lightweight 243 and it is between this and a Kimber montana.
Thanks
Craig
This is a Savage site, and I'm a Savage fan, but the Kimber Montana is a far superior rifle in every way.
Here's a link to Davidson's Gallery of Guns.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/D...x?item=19206&t
click on "Instant Quote" to get prices from dealers near you.
Not trying to start a flame war, but interested in learning. I have never used a Kimber Montana. Would you please elaborate on why you feel it is superior? Also, are the two rifles priced in the same range?Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaqam
I have the Savage 11 Lightweight Hunter in 260. It shoots like most Savages out of the box with consistent sub MOA groups. That's alot better than the two Remington Model 7 (.260, .308) that I owned before the Savage LW Hunter's was available. I would compare it to a Remington Model 7 in terms of size, fit and feel. Mine weights in at 7.0 lbs with Leupold V3 2.5-8x36 scope and Burris Signature rings. Street price was $715.00 when I purchased mine a little over a year ago. Go to Bud's Gun Shop to check pricing. It would be a nice little package in .243 with managable recoil. Certaintly more affordable than a Kimber Montana.
The Kimber costs more and has a better extractor than Savage. Some folks like them some don't.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...montana-63717/
Called myself checking Buds but couldn, find the savage 11 Lightweight and any kimbers are out of stock !
Thanks to all for the replies.
Craig
Search Bud's Gun Shop "Savage 11 LWH" The .243 is listed for $703.
Savage Model 11 Trophy Hunter. Lightweight, easy to handle, does the job nicely. My fiance just bought one, and she loves it. She bought the package rifle with the Bushnell scope. I am not crazy about the scope, but it too,does the job. She bought the rifle, and picked it up from my FFL for $420.00.
You can spend more money if you wish, but why would you??
DK
Thanks for all the replies,I did find the Rifle at Buds Gun shop. Is that the best price to be had on the Internet?
Where is the Least expensive place to Buy a the Kimber ?
Also I noticed that the Savages listed the same weight for all the calibers but I am thinking the 243 would weigh more ,is that correct ?
Thanks Craig
I don't see any reason why the .243 would be heavier than anything else that is also a short action.
1ShotKing
A smaller bore means that for the same barrel length and profile, the .243 would weight more than a .260 or .308 simply because there is more metal in the barrel. For a relatively short, light profile barrel the difference won't be much.
ETA: In the case of a 22" barrel a .308 will have about .56 cubic inches less steel in the barrel than a .243. That equates to 2.5 oz.
@bcraig: I browse a lot of shooting forums and there is some internet noise about the quality control and customer service from Kimber. Of course it is not the best policy to base a decision on anonymous chatter from a few disgruntled owners, but when the volume of complaints reach a certain level, you have to give them some credibility. Personally, if I were looking for a high dollar rifle and showpiece, then I would consider a Cooper. If not, then a remington 700, ruger 77, winchester 70, tikka T3, savage, or howa/weatherby vanguard will all work fine. Of that lot, the savage will be the best shooter out of the box...time and again. I would give the 2nd place nod to the howa/vanguard. If weight is a consideration, then I would look at the tikka T3. If you decide on a savage, but want it prettier, then look at the savage 14.
Just some suggestions.
Hi,thanks for the comments.
I have 2 243 rifle already,one is the remington 7600 with walnut stock and the other is the 7600 in synthetic.Both shoot into less than an inch with factory loads,BUT the siren of and extremely light 243 calls to me!
@bcraig: A happy co-incidence. I too have a wood stocked remington 7600, chambered for .243. The barrel heats up pretty quickly, but three shot groups exhibit amazing accuracy. However, the spongy trigger does require some "getting used to".
One rifle I have been longing for is the savage 14 , chambered for the .250 savage. The .250 savage will do everything a .243 win will do, and you will have a savage rifle, chambered for a classic savage cartridge. Plus the model 14 is nice to look at. Anyway it sounds like you have some fun decisions to make. Half the enjoyment of getting a new gun is the planning part.
Classic 14 in 250 savage all the way. You will never want to shoot a 243 again.
There's plenty that the .243 will do that the .250 Sav won't. The .250 Sav is a great cartridge in its own right, but it died off while the .243 has thrived for a reason. As a deer cartridge within the range limits of the .250 they are essentially the same. Get into longer ranges or into lightweight bullets at high speed for long range varminting, and the .250 is grossly outclassed. It doesn't have a large variety of bullets to choose from. It lacks powder capacity. The .243 can send a higher BC bullet of the same weight at least 100fps faster. Again, trivial at close range but the .243 adds 100yds or so to the effective range.
Newton was amazing and the .250 is a good example....if you decide on the .250 Savage, 22-250 brass is easy to neck up and works fine....The Classic is a fine looking rifle.
Plus the 243 vs 250 ballistics argument is relatively a moot point for these types of rifles. Out to 500 yards they are close to equals, and you have to ask yourself, what's the avg range of your hunting shots, and what's the max range you feel accomplished enough to engage animals at?
While the 250 is a "classic" cartridge, I am not sure why. Never shot one, but I have owned and do own a 243. Factory loadings from each with a 22" barrel (most common, unlike 24 that most test with) and a 100gr bullet, will give about 2750fps from the 250 sav, and 2900 from the 243. Plus the 243 will have a higher BC and offer better penetration as a result.
Also keep in mind there is a ton of 243 loadings available out there. I got some federal 100gr loads a couple years back for $13 a box. They were super accurate in my Savage 243.
I say get the 243 like you first thought. Cartridges on paper and cartridges in the field are two different animals. Most folks I know of use bullets like the Sierra Game King 85gr BTHP for everything from yotes to deer. I have used it on yotes and when you hit them they drop, period. That bullet is traveling around 3200-3300fps and is flat shooting. It is also designed by Sierra as a medium game bullet. Place it in the heart/lung area of a deer and he will have no lungs, and unless you hit a shoulder, it will exit, leaving a blood trail a blind man could follow.
If that isn't good enough, try bullets like the 80-85gr Barnes bullets, or 90, 95 and 100gr Partitions, and place your shots where ever you want them. If you want to really smack varmints way out there, try the 75gr varmint bullets at about 3300-3400fps. There are quite a number of folks that have taken elk with them, with lung shots. If it were my only option, I would, but given other options I wouldn't take it in the field for elk, as a first choice.
It is more fair to compare the 243 to the 25-06 than to the 250 Savage, especially when you do an apples to apples comparison. Most guys will quote their 25-06 speeds with a 24 or 26 inch barrel, while comparing that to the 243 with a 22" tube. Brought down to 22" barrels, the 25-06 loses a lot of it's zip, which is common on overbore cartridges.
It's "classic" because it was the first cartridge to break the 3000 fps in 1915. It was done with with an 87gr bullet, however Newton could not get the 100 gr bullet to 3000 fps.
As stated the .243 wins the numbers game but what does that mean? Did a ballistics model comparison.
I did not use equal BC bullets because, as stated, the selection is better for the .243. However I kept the Model 14 at 2800 fps because several gun magazines have done it with factory 100 grain ammo. Also I kept the barrel at 22" for the Savage and 24" for the .243....the Savage could close the gap a bit if went to a longer barrel?
I don't think these rifles were designed for real long distances in their current configurations, but they both do very well at 300 yards....
Let's look at the different ballistics in .243 Win Kimber Moutain, an a 250 Savage Model 14 (.257)
Using G1 model, 59 deg, 78% hum, 10mph 90deg wind
.243 100 grain Berger Target BC .475 MV 2900 fps
300 yards -12 inches -1.2" drift Vel 2300fps Energy 1200 ft lbs
500 yards -50 inches -6.25" drift Vel 2000fps Energy 880 ft lbs
.257 100 grain Barnes XLC BC .420 MV 2800fps
300 yards -13 inches -1.5" drift Vel 2190fps Energy 1100 ft lbs
500 yards -56 inches -7" drift Vel 1825fps Energy 750 ft lbs
Couldn`t help but notice, You made such a blatant statement on Oct 21 and even after being asked to elaborate on such a statement,so far you have come back with nothing. You said " superior in every way".Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaqam
Please, Enlighten us, Could you give us at least 4 examples of Kimber Montana "Superiority" Maybe I`ll have to trade in my savage.
whats a good al around twist for the 243 if there is such a thing as a good around twist...
your paying for the name is all,,,like a john deere versus a sears....it's the name man the name...lmbffaoQuote:
Originally Posted by gerard488
I guess a 10, that will cover most of the mid to heavy spectrum of bullets available, I have a Shilen barrel for my change barrel Mauser with that twist....Quote:
Originally Posted by acemisser
1-12 for light bullets
More info:
You may already use this, but here is a ton of info on .243 win loads--
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/ind...topic=982860.0
250 savage is a nice round but I am definetly going 243 Winchester.
I like the performance and factory ammo offerings as I choose not to reload anymore.
I definetly am interested in hearing more about the Savage Lightweight 243 and also the Savage Lightweight Verses the Kimber Montana.
Thanks
Craig
PS anyone know where I might Pickup a used Montana 243 or a used Savage Lightweight 243 ?
Im thinking finding one used will be tough. Ive been looking for a couple months and havent seen one. I watch gunbroker everyday not one used one yet. I just cant decide between the 243 or the 6.5 creed.
Yes that is true but when deer season is over for most people then There will be several available and at decent prices as well !
Yes the 6.5 is nice as well !
Craig
I hope so. Im looking to try and build one and see how close I can get to the weight.. l just realy like the look of the LWH.
To jump in on the 250 or 243, I own both hunt with 243 and just love the 250. Just have to say you get a little advantage with the 24 call bullets the higher B C gives it an edge.
The closest I could ever get with a standard Savage SA was 6.5 lbs. That was with a skeletonized buttstock/shortened forend Boyd's thumbhole laminated stock (2lbs, 5 oz) and custom 22" featherweight barrel (2 lbs, 1oz). From my experience, you'll be hard pressed to get to the weight (5.5 lbs) and compactness of the Savage 11/111 LWH using a standard Savage action. My recommendation is to get the Savage 11 LWH in 6.5 Creed. if you don't reload, or 260 if you reload. Hornday has expanded their selection of factory ammo for the 6.5 Creed. Go with the 260 if you reload and load down to match performance recoil of the 243 or up to match performance of the 7mm-08 and 308 using the wide selection of high BC 6.5mm bullets. Based on my experinces, you'll save time and money by just starting with the Savage 11 LWH. It is light, compact and makes the perfect truck or stand rifle. Hopefully an aftermarket stock for the Savage LWH will be offered in the not too distant future.Quote:
Originally Posted by N8Will
I do reload so I will look into the 260. My buddy has been trying to talk me into a 260 AI for awhile know this just might be the one. I think that would be one great mountain gun. Did Savage change the action of the LW?
Savage uses a 9.25 if I am not mistaken. That will easily handle the 105gr and below. Going with a slower twist might cause you problems with the heavier bullets. That is basically what condemned the 6mm remington. They chose a slower twist (can't recall what it was) for the 85-87gr loads, and when hunters used the 100gr loads the rifles were inaccurate. That plus, my understand was they didn't offer it in the 700 and the rifle it came is was substandard. Marketing is everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by acemisser
Power wise the 6mm has a bit of an edge on the 243, and chambered in good rifles with proper twist will out do the 243.
As for the LW action, yes savage trimmed some metal off the sides, I think you can see it in close up pics. If I am not mistaken, it's a 20" barrel, but don't quote me on that, best to look at the web site to be sure.
I have a Savage 11 LWH in 260. Besides metal being remove from the action and bolt body, it also has a 20" featherweight barrel that tapers to 0.540" at the muzzle. My guess is the barrel weight is slightly under 2 lbs verses 2 lbs 6 oz for a 22" Savage sporter barrel. To reduce weight (approximately 8 oz) verses a metal DBM assembly, Savage uses a plastic DBM frame, bottom cap and trigger guard with front bolt release. The LWH walnut stock is trimmer and shorter (30" stock; 13.5" pull length; 1" recoil pad ) verses than the standard Savage 14 American classic stock. It has vent slots cut into the underside of the forend for additional weight reduction and to aid barrel cooling.
As you can see from numbers below, the Savage LWH in 260 with a 20" 1:8 twist barrel is a very effective compact hunting rifle. I use a max load of H4350 powder; 130 gr Bergers; Lapua brass; Wolf LR primers. Groups are very consistant, 0.75" @100 yrds and sub MOA out to my comfort zone of 300 yds. Total rifle weight is 7.0 lbs with scope and sling. Recoil is 15.4 ft-lbs with this load.
0 yrd; 2913 MV; 2450 E
300 yd; 2423 V; 1695 E
600 yd; 1983 V; 1135 E
If on a limited budget, I would look at the Savage 11 Trophy Hunter. Savage uses the same LW plastic DBM assembly and trigger guard used in the Savage LWH. Sell the cheap package scope and tupperware stock as new take-offs and use the funds to purchase a discounted walnut Savage 14 classic stock (Numrich Gun Parts). The plastic DBM assembly and trigger guard used in the Savage 11 Trophy Hunter will also fit in this and other Savage SA CF stocks with the DBM cutout.
1 in 12" was the original 6mm Remington twist.Quote:
Originally Posted by handirifle
This is the route I took. It's a 260. If I can sell the Nikon scope for $100 I'll have the rifle for $340, can't beat that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdown
I replaced the Nikon scope with a Leupold VXll 3-9x33 Ultralight, Lightweight Talley mounts and a light sling. So far the weight is just under 7 lbs. 3 oz. Got the Accutrigger down to 2 lbs.
Jpdown, How much does the Savage 14 classic stock weigh?
I have a M10 in .243 I got for Antelope but, this year I used it for deer and shot a nice Muley at 150 yds. with Hornady 100 gr. Custom Interbond ammo. It moved 3 feet (straight down). Good gun. Very effective.
The Savage 14 American Classic stock weights about 2 lbs 5 oz stripped. You can shave off another 3 oz by carefully hollowing out the buttstock with a wood bit. Make sure the bit is sharp and go slow to avoid splitting the wood.
You can also skeletonize the forearm a good bit, but no matter what you do to it, it's still going to be rather heavy. Wood stocks are funny that way.
Holy crap. I found out why the people pushing Kimber here aren't giving the price. Ableammo is showing almost $1200 for the Montana :distrust:
Yep. They're mighty proud of them.