Double drat scope mounting

So I traipsed out to the range...45 min drive one way. Paid my ten dollars and proceeded to set up my Striker for her Maiden Voyage. Last Friday I had visited Cabala's and charged them with coming up with the mounting and ring hardware for my "junk" Burris scope. The guy that brought my gun out had an audience of fellow Cabala's gun guys. One lent over the counter and in a conspiratorial tone said :we have a new program. For only ten dollars we will take your gun out to the range and run a thousand rounds through it....you provide the ammo". Nice try! Laughter all around. They really liked the gun.

The mounting Smith told me he had had a heck of a time getting the bore sight to work on my gun and he attributed that to the 16 inch barrel. That didn't sound right but I let it pass and he assured me it was spot on.....he lied to me I learned at the range.

Two shots of the mighty 308 and I hadn't even smudged the paper. I asked a fellow shooter to spot for me and he said "you are in the dirt 5 feet low and a couple feet to the right. How in blue blazes can that be true...I used different adjectives. I moved to the 50 and after two shots I wasn't on paper even aiming for the seam in the double stack targets. On to the 25 yard pistol range way down at the end. At 25 yards it was it was 6 inches to the right and 8 high. Holy crap! ( I really should have caught that "high" part)So I set about making corrections. Some how, in all it's simplicity, I managed to go the wrong way on the elevation screw and only got half the correction I should have gotten in the horizontal. What a klutz, I thought, and you are faulting those nice guys at Cabala's. After the next correction it was even further off and I was loosing faith. The rear mount, it turned out, was nice and tight. The ring was NOT. On inspection, the ring had a bunch of clearance between the ring and mount but seemed tight. It wasn't. The mount in the front is much higher than the flat based one in the rear. The scope stands away from the mount. The mounts are not machined properly. The rings are perfect...if you want the scope tube crushed. Being out of align the tube is dented......would that hurt anything...he said wide eyed.

A question I have is can the scope be ruined by having .050 inches of travel between the ring and base. The 308 gives everything a heck of a whack and I fear the scope is shot. The Smith told me there was something wrong as the elevation screw was acting backwards but he had gotten it bore sighted. It worked as it should when I looked at it at home.

Not a good day. 1.5 hrs travel to the range. 1 hr to Cabela's. 45 minute wait for the smith, AGAIN. 12 rounds shot to hell(pun intended). Day ruined. What do you guys think I should do? Seriously?

Can you find the up side in all this? Me neither.

Thanks,

John

At the very least I would be standing in front of the Cabela's gun counter with that rifle in my hand, to discuss what they did to it.

Sean,

I will do exactly that.....eventually. The store manager got involved on my second trip....every so slightly and insufficiently in my view. So I will try to get corporate attention with a letter. That should lead to a more thorough review. I'll let you know how it turns out.

John

You would think you should be able to trust that Cabela's would have a smith that is competent. That however is not the case in so many instances. I have seen a number of botched gunsmith jobs from chain store hacks. This is a perfect time to buy the equipment to start doing these tasks yourself. If you do not want to tackle these items always use a reputable smith. The difference in cost is usually worth every dime.

What do you think Cabela's pays a "Smith"? How do think that interview process goes?


...remember - this is big box retail.

I used the word Smith "loosely". 4 screws for the mounts and the receiver is pre-drilled. Three screws for each ring. The rings were tightened in the wrong sequence and that screwed the pooch there. The mounts are machined wrong as the slope of the front sets the scope 50 thousandths higher in the rear. That was the "5 feet in the dirt in front of the target" issue. No way that came in true on a bore-sighter. It even shows up looking down the bore at the target after you get on to the problem and you start doing simple things but when you start off with "it is bore sighted to 100 yards, Sir" you get off on tangents.

Low pay and no training and they set them loose on my $1,000 pistol is why we have Tort Law. If they don't have any skin in the game they begin to act with impunity. In Europe, if there is a sign that says "Gun Smith available" you can call up the Gun Smith Guild and get a complete description of what a Smith can do and what his qualifications are. In Germany, it is a 4 year full time trade school and there is a harshly graded test and evaluation by "old timers" that guard the reputation of the Guild like Mama Bears. he Gummint issues a license but the Guild approves it. That system would never work here..... no wait...there is a Gun Smith Guild that requires a 4 year apprenticeship to a Guild member. It's the shingle part.

Oh well, I'll sort it out and do so without hurting anyone if that is possible. "In a well played game everyone smiles at the same time."

John

Cabalas was nice. The younger gent that they gave the gun to this time was a little more savvy.... I think. He looked at the set-up and the flaw and shuddered. His first comment was "this scope must have taken a beating. I would send it back...you have a lifetime manufacturers guarantee". He agreed with me that the rail, a two piece affair, was much lower in the rear piece than in the front. What he also found was that the rear surface of the receiver was machined at a seriously different angle to the front mountings. So that rear flat was low and canted. I think it also has a downward slope to the front but that is just a hunch. What would that be...milling machine "yaw"? The conclusion at Cabalas was that the receiver is defective BUT they should have caught the problem and my only recourse is with the mfr. if I want a fix. They refunded all my money even though I had no receipts and i got a nice gift cert for in-house purchases. They are good.

Took the receiver to my Smith and told him what they found and asked him to check it with gauges. Hew declined and said just eyeballing it was enuf. A straight edge said it was low by mine and Cabalas assessment and he thought that was sufficient proof of that. He looked at it for a moment and said "the whole thing is machined off at an angle" He thought it might also slope to the front, as I did. He said that he thought it probable that Savage would decline to take any action and would "suggest" that a Smith mount the rear sight base. He also shared that, in his experience, ALL machine work on a rifle needed verified....regardless of brand or country of manufacturer...ALL of them. I think he is jaded. He said he could resolve the problem with his mill and then provide a properly cut shim to bring the mounting surfaces into alignment but he suggested I try carefully "bedding" the rear of a one piece Picatinney type base/rail. He added with a shrug, as though an afterthought, "$85 to mill it and I'll throw in the drilled and sized shim but you should have no problem pulling this off yourself. I'm here of you need me but I doubt you will". I told him "there is no cause for you to get all nasty and disrespectful". Great guy and I relish his company and I seize on any reason to visit his shop. I have a pint of bedding compound.

This is a "olde" Striker of the first, twin trigger rails, design. It was sold to me as having less than 20 rounds down the pipe. Maybe the receiver machining problem was why the dealer had kept it on the shelf all these many years...I don't know. All in all, I got an education, talked with lots of concerned folks up at Cabalas and spent another half hour with my Smith, and learned something from everyone. It may take a couple weeks to get it done and back to the range and then I'll post an update. You deserve closure if you read all this.

John

1. A "rail" is singular - meaning one piece. Calling a 2-piece base setup a "rail" is not only inaccurate, but downright confusing why trying to figure out what you're talking about.
2. The rear flat's are usually a nightmare as these older receivers were all hand polished prior to bluing, and if the polisher hit that area with a heavy hand it would get all walper-jawed.

Your gunsmith's advice was pretty spot on and about your only options. This is a pretty common issue with the old flat-tops and why we all cheered with joy when they made the change to the round-top receivers when they introduced the AccuTrigger.

Jim,

Obviously it was lost that I started out with a two piece base but with the problem I have opted to go with the single Pic rail. That way I can screw the front down and leave the rear to sit in a puddle of bedding epoxy. I left out a lot of steps in that description that include release agent etc.

Not only tone gets lost in this medium but details that seem clear to the author and are thought accurate till they are shown to him to be NOT. With my superior skills as a writer there can only...... never mind. I'm sure you get it. Me a culpa. Thanks for the heads up.

I had no idea this was a a common problem and I find it hard to believe Savage was so lax. Mine is not a buffing foo-paw. This is a NMC error...big time. Not to argue with you in the least. I really like this gun and the trigger is superb and the action is really smooth even if it weren't a Savage. But, this sort of stuff really turns a guy OFF. Like my Smith said, I think he felt my disappointment at learning that this was not a rare situation, even the best brands need to be checked in every dimension and function. Experience comes hard and slow and is not overrated.

Thanks,

John

My self are in the process of purchasing the tools needed to properly mount all the rifle scopes for my rifle just seams to me the thing to do as Wheeler makes all the tools needed to Align, Level and adjust the cross hairs and have purchased the AimShot lazer bore sights with the collets for all the calibers i shoot.
I bore sight in my basement at 25 feet on a target which makes my sight in at 25 yards about 1 inch high and at 100 yards very close to the to were i want it to be.