Barnes loading manual issues

I just got my Barens #4 manual a week ago, and couple days ago was loading up some 308 and '06 TTSX loads. Came across an odd issue. When using the listed loads for Varget and the 130grTSX, for the 308. I do not have the manual in front of me, but if memory serves me, it calls for a max load of 56gr Varget, no mention of compressed. The real odd thing is 55gr takes it to the TOP of the case mouth?????

I emails Barnes about this. I have loaded up some, working up, but I could barely keep the bullet in the case with only 55gr. I looked at my Hodgdons manual, to compare, and although they don't list the 130gr Barnes, their Sierra lists (IIRC) something like 54gr as mac, (COMPRESSED). I am sure my Tipped TSX is longer than the Sierra, although it, too, is a tipped boattail bullet.

I also had similar issues using BL C-2. Any one else run into this type of thing? Ever USE the stuff listed in the number 4 manual? Still waiting to hear back from them, I didn't write till Friday nite, so will probably be tomorrow sometime.

According to the data on the website (barnes), the max load for 308, 130g TSX and varget is 52g. That is also showing a load density of 106%.

The TSX will be quite a bit longer than a conventional lead core bullet in the same weight.

Ok there i go trusting memory, at least I looked at the manual when I wrote Barnes. I just got home again, so will see, but maybe the issue started at 50. I would NEVER have gone over their listed load. Like I said, was loadin for '06 same day (not same time) so maybe got my numbers mixed in my head.

I will say I overlooked the "load density" column though, thanks for pointing that out.

I do have another question. I have never used the crimp portion of my resizing die, so bear with me on that part, but is that what they are talking about when they recommend a "factory crimp style die"? The only crimp ddieI have used are the Lee, for my leveraction rifles.

OK, home now, and looked at actual numbers. The BL C(2) max was 56gr, not the Varget, although I had issues with both. The most I felt comfortable "stuffing" into the case was 51.5gr of the BL C(2), and of the Varget, top comfort level was 50.0gr Now that I no longer have the book in front of me, seems the BL was a 101% charge at 56gr. When they say 101% does that mean 101% of the entire case, like it's gonna spill over the top level?

Load density of 100% would mean that when a bullet is seated to the suggested OAL, there is no more room for powder without compressing the charge. So, load density above 100% is a compressed charge.

Yes, the crimp feature on your die will be "factory like". Best to seat bullets and crimp in separate steps.

Hope that helps!

That was what I had always figured 100% was, but these loads are literally MORE than the case will hold. Like I mentioned I wrote Barnes about this so I will see what they say.

As for the crimping, with the top loads, the bullet wouldn't stay down long enough to crimp in a separate step. I can feel it compressing the powder, and no matter how much I adjusted the bullet seating screw down, the bullet would NOT STAY seated to the new level. IF these loads are safe, it will have to be seated, and crimped in one step or the bullet slides back up to make the OAL too long.

Oddest thing I have ever seen, and I have been loading about 40 years, just NEVER ran into something like this.

you may want a little more neck tension ( sized smaller) if your bullets keep moving.

measure the neck of a fired case to a resized one.

I never crimp rifle bullets, just me, even when I was shooting my 9.3 X 62 with 285, & 300 gr. bullets. maybe the reason I don't crimp is I try to use a powder, & charge that fills the case to the top of the neck. doesn't always work that way.

i have all the Barnes manuals. there were some mis prints in some of them, that's why i do as some suggested, I go on line to the bullet manufacture, or the powder co, & review the suggested loads.

as most people suggest, I always start approx. 3 gr. lower then max. & work up.

Yea none of these ever reached max load, cause the bullets would stay down!!!Never seen charges so full before so I have never seen the need to crimp bolt action rounds before. I checked online as well as my Hodgdons manuals, and the Hodgdons shows a lower max on one load, by about 2 grains less. very odd to me.
I suppose I could get another neck expansion ball and sand it down a couple thousandths to see if that worked better, or look for a factory crimp die. Maybe one for a 30-30. I tried setting my die low enough to lightly crimp the case, but must have got it too low cause the round wouldn't chamber after I did that. Had to pull all the bullets and resize the darn things. Good thing I only crimped a few of them before checking.

Still haven't got to the range. I need to go into town today and mow the daughters rental house lawn. Supposed to rain the next few days. Anhere I thought I would have LOTS of time for this stuff once I retired. Ha! I have been busier than when I worked, I just make a whole lot less money.

Something does not seem right.

What is the brand of brass you are using? Not all brass has the same capacity. I measure in grains the amount of ball powder (H 330) that my cases (.308) will hold to have a base line to measure to. But NEVER have I filled a case to the top and tried to seat a bullet into it. That runs a chance of deforming the case (likely at the base of the neck) and that round couldnt be set to battery without a hammer. :o :o :o :o

This particular lot of brass is Remington.

Yea I knew something wasn't right (duh, huh?). Funny thing is Barnes hasn't got back to me yet. Hmmmm, wonder if they're going over it?