Help me figure out whats going on...

So I had my rifle (Savage 111 in .308 with a sporter barrel and synthetic stock) sighted in with Remington Core Lokt 155gr rounds. I loaded some ammo and shot it from the bench, no vise or anything just off a bipod. Everything is CCI primer and Remington 150gr SP bullets. Targets were set at 100 yards with calm winds and about 75 degree ambient temp.

This target is H4895, the left is 43gr and the right is 41.2gr. Each time I was aiming for the bull of the TOP target.
[img width=253 height=450]http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/Bottlerocket91/2011-09-09_11-25-28_189.jpg[/img]

This target is Varget, Left is 42.6gr (the X'd holes are the left group) and the right is 40.4gr. Again I was aiming for the bull of the top target on each.
[img width=253 height=450]http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/Bottlerocket91/2011-09-09_11-25-59_474.jpg[/img]

Any input? I know these wont shoot exactly like the factory ammo, but I didn't think the groups would be this spread out or this low compared to factory.

those loads are several grains too light on the powder. thats not even close to the minimal loads

150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4007 SSC .308" 2.800" 44.7 2578 44,700 PSI 48.0C 2742 51,300 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.800" 44.0 2788 43,300 CUP 47.0C 2937 50,300 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 44.1 2658 44,600 PSI 49.0C 2936 59,800 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 43.0 2663 44,700 PSI 47.7C 2903 57,100 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Winchester 748 .308" 2.800" 48.5 2865 48,000 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 2.800" 45.0 2661 40,200 CUP 48.0 2839 50,000 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 42.6 2631 42,300 PSI 47.3C 2920 57,700 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H335 .308" 2.800" 41.0 2619 42,600 CUP 44.0 2787 51,200 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H4895 .308" 2.800" 43.0 2742 43,200 CUP 45.5 2870 51,000 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 8208 XBR .308" 2.800" 40.0 2604 45,500 PSI 44.5C 2870 60,800 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 40.2 2658 44,300 PSI 43.5C 2881 59,200 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon Benchmark .308" 2.800" 39.0 2521 38,800 CUP 43.0 2752 49,900 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H322 .308" 2.800" 37.0 2508 39,100 CUP 40.0 2702 50,500 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR Trail Boss .308" 2.800" 10.0 1176 25,800 PSI 14.0 1417 27,100 PSI

the light load plus a lighter bullet is gonna have less recoil which means less barrel lift before the bullet leaves the barrel. thats gonna result in lower point of impact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keeki

those loads are several grains too light on the powder. thats not even close to the minimal loads

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How so? I was using the Hornady reloading guide. For Varget it has 42.6 just under the 44.9 max load, and H4895 at 42.3 is just under the max of 44.0.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keeki

150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4007 SSC .308" 2.800" 44.7 2578 44,700 PSI 48.0C 2742 51,300 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.800" 44.0 2788 43,300 CUP 47.0C 2937 50,300 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 44.1 2658 44,600 PSI 49.0C 2936 59,800 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 43.0 2663 44,700 PSI 47.7C 2903 57,100 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Winchester 748 .308" 2.800" 48.5 2865 48,000 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon BL-C(2) .308" 2.800" 45.0 2661 40,200 CUP 48.0 2839 50,000 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 42.6 2631 42,300 PSI 47.3C 2920 57,700 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H335 .308" 2.800" 41.0 2619 42,600 CUP 44.0 2787 51,200 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H4895 .308" 2.800" 43.0 2742 43,200 CUP 45.5 2870 51,000 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 8208 XBR .308" 2.800" 40.0 2604 45,500 PSI 44.5C 2870 60,800 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 40.2 2658 44,300 PSI 43.5C 2881 59,200 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon Benchmark .308" 2.800" 39.0 2521 38,800 CUP 43.0 2752 49,900 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H322 .308" 2.800" 37.0 2508 39,100 CUP 40.0 2702 50,500 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT IMR Trail Boss .308" 2.800" 10.0 1176 25,800 PSI 14.0 1417 27,100 PSI

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Are these max or what? According to this my Varget was a little light but the H4895 was spot on

150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon Varget .308" 2.800" 44gr 2788 43,300 CUP 47.0C 2937 50,300 CUP

150 GR. NOS BT Hodgdon H4895 .308" 2.800" 43.0 2742 43,200 CUP 45.5 2870 51,000 CUP

for the varget 44gr is minimum and 47gr is max. for the H4895 43gr is minimum and 45.5 is max. of course these are nosler bullets and not Rem soft points so the pressures are gonna be a little different but usually noslers show higher pressures. this is from Hodgdon website

Often times you will find a given powder will only start to burn at it's best, or most consistent, when it's at the upper end of it's load range. The slower the powder's burn rate, and the larger the case capacity of the cartridge, the more this seems to be so. Of the loads you listed, all seem to be either at or below the minimum starting load figure given for that powder, according to the Hodgdon data, which is available on their website:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

For the Varget example listed in keeki's table, 44.0 grs is shown as the "minimum", and 47.0 grs is shown as the maximum. Your charge of 42.6 grs is below minimum. Other than the obvious warning that loads below minimum can cause seriously erratic pressures, I would also expect your accuracy to be dismal (which it seems to be).

For H4895, in keeki's table, 43.0 grs is minimum, and 45.5 grs is maximum. Your load of 42.3 grs is once again, under the minimum suggested starting load.

I just consulted my Hornady manual, Varget's max is 44.9 grs, and H4895 is 44.0 grs. So, I see where you're getting your data from. The problem is also, we are using data listed with the wrong bullet, in both data sets to "extrapolate" loading data for your 155 (?) gr Remington bullet. I don't think you are in any dangerous territory here, but I would expect that if you incrementally increased your powder charges in both loads by .5 grs at a time, you will see you're groups shrink.

Lyman's manual lists a Varget max charge of 47.0 grs with a 150 gr Hornady sp. Once again, this is data for a different bullet, but gives you something to extrapolate by.

I would load 5 sets of 5 rounds, with each powder charge, with each charge being .5 grs heavier than the previous charge, and shoot the entire series from smallest to largest charge.

There can be a big difference in accuracy between 43.0 grs of powder and 44.0 grs of powder, especially in a 308 case.

So I guess there isnt even a place to get load data for Remington bullets and should go with something a little higher quality

The bullets will be fine just use the data from Hodgdon and work your way up. With the varget you may not get to the listed max and you may get a good ways over before any pressure signs due to the difference in some of the lots of powder. Just do like Slim said and go up in .5 grain increments and you should find a load that will work for you. The Remington bullets are not i repete NOT target bullets and you should not expect target accuracy from them. If you get it good for you but expect hunting accuracy from them.

Gary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earl39

The bullets will be fine just use the data from Hodgdon and work your way up. With the varget you may not get to the listed max and you may get a good ways over before any pressure signs due to the difference in some of the lots of powder. Just do like Slim said and go up in .5 grain increments and you should find a load that will work for you. The Remington bullets are not i repete NOT target bullets and you should not expect target accuracy from them. If you get it good for you but expect hunting accuracy from them.

Gary

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I don't expect target accuracy from them, but I at least expected similar accuracy to what I'd get out of a box of Remington Core Lokt off the shelf or even better.

Second rule of reloading. (First rule - buy the reloading book....and read it...a couple times)

Powder manufacturers produce and proof loads. Follow their books.

At this time, we have several resources available to us - books and powder manufacturers websites.