My new build shoots 5 o-clock and keeps going

Ok so I just finished my build and I go to shoot my rifle. It functions fine it’s just the POI moves for some reason. It’s chambered in 30-06 just fyi, i also check all the screws to be sure they were tight. I don’t know if the combination of all the new stuff makes it act strange or I just suck. Let me know what you guys think I would be grateful
Stevens 200 donor action
Boyd’s Prairie hunter
New never been shot Pac-nor super match
New Pillars and new Devcon bedding
New Talley light weight one piece Rings
New never been shot Zeiss conquest 3-9x40
New never been shot, trimmed and sized and prepped Winchester brass
These where hand loads with 150gr Nosler BT under 50grs of Varget and WW primers

[img width=316 height=450]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/oOsIcKneSs/target.jpg[/img]
The black spots are paint from my failed attempt at using wheelers cerama bake on paint
[img width=600 height=358]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/oOsIcKneSs/IMAG0392.jpg[/img]
The barrel nut does not come in contact with the decon under but im thinking i shouldnt have bedded all the way around the recoil lug.
[img width=600 height=358]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/oOsIcKneSs/IMAG0394.jpg[/img]

What is your barrel? SS or CM? Sporter, Magnum,Varmint? How Long? How many shots are you making before you let the barrel cool?


EDIT:
I missed the

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New never been shot Pac-nor super match

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part first read through.

It’s a 24" #4 SS Super Match Grade. I fired all of 15 rounds in about 45 minutes so the barrel got warm. The first few were to dial in as my laser bore sight needs new batterys so i did it old school (the hard way). I only had 20 rounds, 5 of each load, 49gr, 49.5gr, 50gr, 50.5gr. By the time I got center on a target i had used 10 rounds……don’t laugh I had no other tool to bore sight lol. i never got to the 50.5gr as it was getting dark and supper was on the table. It might have been from the barrel getting warm, but why only the 5 o’clock movement?

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Originally Posted by hi-teck

Although it may be listed, varget is not an optimum powder for a 30-06. Try H-4350 or 4831.

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Why would Varget cause the poi to shift? ??? I know it may not be optimal but it should still have the same poi give or take. I am planning on getting some 4350 once $ allows but I figured it would work fine for the time being.
Please elaborate if you would be so kind ;D

ok sounds good. i guess ill weight for more powder! thanks

I suspect that it is a bedding issue in the stock. I know it's pillar bedded, but maybe one of the pillars is "off"?

Do you have another stock you can put it in, just for a "trail run"? Just to see where it hits and if it's drifting or not?

Don't worry about the bedding on the trial stock, just put it in and shoot it to see where the shot pattern goes.

I have a hard time accepting the premise that it has anything to do with load recipe. A "wrong" recipe for the rifle may shoot a pattern instead of a group, sure, but that pattern should be fairly centralized. Not drifting to one direction continuously until you stop shooting it.

That or the barrel is loose in the receiver (which I doubt), try grabbing the barrel in one hand and the receiver in the other and try as hard as you can to twist the barrel loose with your hands. If you can't, then that is not an issue either.

I'm betting stock.

man, i know that is very frustating for you! Just hang in there and try some of the tips these guys are posting and you will get it worked out. It definately looks to me like an issue with something heating up and applying pressure either on the stock or the barrel. Or something perhaps moving shot to shot....scope rings, mounts, etc. Maybe take the scope, rings, and mounts all off, take the action out of the stock, and put everythign back together again checking each for tightness and float as you go. If that doesn't work, try to make a cold bore shot and then put the gun up for an hour or so and shoot a cold bore again. If the two shots group near each other, you are likely dealing with heat pressure. just some ideas.....

Ok....I "kind of" just went thru something like this with my 6.5 Swede. Only I shoot RL-22 and not Varget. Varget is a fine powder when shooting it in the 308, (and I have plenty of experience with the 308) but I have no experience with the 30-06.

However, my Savage action....barreled in 6.5 Swede was shooting "well....but I thought a skim bedding and a good recoil lug bedding would get it better. So, with some Davcon I did just that. Once it dried I cleaned up the overflow, wrenched the action in...front scmrew first, back second...45-in\lbs making sure I held the barrel straight up when the screws were just snug and "banged" the butt on the bench to make sure the recoil lug was against the stock.

I went out.....and the groups were worse!!!

So....I gave it some thought....sanded off the Davcon that was on the side of the action.....but more importantly, I took a good hard look at the recoil lug and measured the gap between the bottom of the lug and the stock. This (I did this with the small tail of my dial caliper) gap appeared to be much to close. So close that to me....it looked like when I tightened the screw down, the bottom of the lug would actually be touching the stock.

So, I got out my small set of carving chisels and carved out the Davcon at the bottom of where I thought the lug may be touching....as well as the sides of where I thought it may be touching. I measured this and the gap was now at least 1\8".

So....I took the gun out and gave it 5 quick shots. The first 3 were in the 1" dot, and the next 2 just outside. This was at 100 yards, and this is a coutour barrel. I never gave the barrel a chance to cool down. So....Yeah....it's all good now!!! ;D ;D ;D I hope this helps. Here's a pic of my target:

[img width=600 height=337]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/davemuzz/784679235_photobucket_44905_.jpg[/img]

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Originally Posted by davemuzz

So, I got out my small set of carving chisels and carved out the Davcon at the bottom of where I thought the lug may be touching....as well as the sides of where I thought it may be touching. I measured this and the gap was now at least 1\8".

[img width=600 height=337]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/davemuzz/784679235_photobucket_44905_.jpg[/img]

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Yeah Dave i was browsing through the forums and I saw your post and I kind of think I am in the same boat. I read not to bed in front and under the recoil lug but my stubborn self thought otherwise. I shot another 20 rounds this morning over a 90 min period they grouped more consistent but still in the 5 o’clock area. I looked at my scope and didn’t like how close the front scope ring was to the bell (nearly flush with the ring) so I untightened the screws and slid the scope up towards the barrel about 4 mils and it seemed to help as it now shot closer to 6-7 o’clock lol. I’m kind of scrawny and shooting prone it was making my collar bone a bit soar…. Later today after I spend some time with my daughter I load up a few more and try to chisel out any excess in the lug area

If you have an in\lb wrench....use it!! If you don't.....beg, borrow...or steal one. I have my action screws tightened at 45-in\lbs and I can tell you that the torque settings on a Savage do effect the group size.

Also....make sure your tang....under your safety switch, is "free floating" as well. Take a piece of paper and check around it to make sure it's not touching. If it is, just sand down some of the stock so the tang is not touching.

These darn barrel harmonics can be a bite....or a blessing!!!

Let us know your outcome!!

Dave

Any aftermarket wood stock will need some tweeking to get barrel and tang float, lug contact correct, etc. and etc. Keep at the tweeking and the goups will come in. By the way, how do you like that stock? I plan on geting one in Walnut, checkered for an extra $50.


El Lobo

Soooo um I don’t have a torque wrench that can go that low, I'll have to look at the one at work. (I’m an industrial mechanic at an aseptic processing facility) I did chisel out underneath my recoil lug and I think it was binding there.

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Originally Posted by ellobo

Any aftermarket wood stock will need some tweeking to get barrel and tang float, lug contact correct, etc. and etc. Keep at the tweeking and the goups will come in. By the way, how do you like that stock? I plan on geting one in Walnut, checkered for an extra $50. El Lobo

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Ellobo I do like the stock… drilling pillars is bad…..they Have cross bolts that I had to grind down with a carbide bit. I’m not sure but I think I want the thumbhole stock next if I do change it.
The tang is floating and the barrel is floating via $dollar bill check

Well....if you can't get your hands on an in\lb wrench....or don't want to buy one from Midway right now.....then use the "turn 'em the same number" method. That is...once you have both action screws snug....tighten the front one first....and if you tighten it with an allen wrench, and say you turn that wrench 1.25 times, then do the same with the rear screw. That way, you will have both pretty close to the same torque.

Dave

Yeah I went out back to shoot a few more rounds….or try to 98*f outside and the barrel got hot after 5 shots.. it settled down a bit and I was able to hit the x a few times, best group was probably 1” :-\

hay you also have to remember that you have a brand new barrel there it will take some shots to brake-in

are the shots still stringing? like the group in your first post?

i have a 300wsm that each shot would move about 1/2 inch right. made the strangest lineshaped groups. ended up the recoil moved the turret on the cheapo tasco scope. only other time ive seen this was a buddies palma rifle in 308. some loads strung the groups like that, his problem was bedding

You baked your gun?

What other loads have you tried shooting through your rifle? What wheight, brand, and type of bullets have you used? How far off the lands are you setting the bullets in the cartridge? What kind of trigger do you have on the rifle? Has anyone else shot your rifle to try to eliminate the human factor in shooting?

I believe you should look at your twist rate. I have a 1:10 that will not shoot 150 grain bullets. Now if I shoot 180's...one hole. Let us know what your twist rate is and if you have a video camera, set it up focusing on your hand, shoulder and face. If you are closing your eyes, jerking or tensing up it is you. Practice exhale, hold; squeeze.

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Originally Posted by stangfish

I believe you should look at your twist rate. I have a 1:10 that will not shoot 150 grain bullets. Now if I shoot 180's...one hole. Let us know what your twist rate is and if you have a video camera, set it up focusing on your hand, shoulder and face. If you are closing your eyes, jerking or tensing up it is you. Practice exhale, hold; squeeze.

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the barrel is a 1x11 twist and i beleive it should shoot 150's. i have some 168's i can try. the old lady has my dslr that can do video. we shall see if she will let me use my camera.

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Originally Posted by M.O.A.

hay you also have to remember that you have a brand new barrel there it will take some shots to brake-in

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ya i only have abut 85-90 down the tube as of now, hopefuly it will improve

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Originally Posted by psharon97

What other loads have you tried shooting through your rifle? What wheight, brand, and type of bullets have you used? How far off the lands are you setting the bullets in the cartridge? What kind of trigger do you have on the rifle? Has anyone else shot your rifle to try to eliminate the human factor in shooting?

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i am shooting 150gr nosler ballistic tips loaded just off the lands (via jam test, i am waiting on my modified case to get here) the trigger is the same stevens 200 trigger adjusted to a safe low..thats the next item on my buy list (either a sss compitition or a rifle basix SAV-2) i dont really know to many people out here and i dont shoot at a range.. just against the hillside out in the stix

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Originally Posted by borg

You baked your gun?

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lol ya i used this stuff on the action http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=455475 and it toatly sucked..it jsut flaked off pretty bad if any other metal touched it.. so i sandblasted it off and parkerized the action

heres one of the last targets i shot.... first 3 were great but the last 2 welll not soo great
[img width=600 height=285]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/oOsIcKneSs/target2.jpg[/img]

You didn't state if you waited between your shots??? If not (and I can't recall if your shootin a contour barrel or not) and your barrel is getting hot.....then your gettin some good groups from this. But if your waiting 5 min. between shots, well....that's another story. If that's the case, then:

1) Go back and recheck your bedding to make sure your barrel and tang are free floating. (Barrel nut too!!)
2) Double check your scope 'n mounts. Slap another scope on there if you have one to double check it with.

Also....I know your shootin Noslers just off the lands....but if you can get some Hornady's and try seating 'em 10, 20, and 30 thousands off the lands I would do that as well. I've had Hornady's shoot like lazers in some rifles.....and of course.....I've had Noslers make Hornadys look like crap in others!!! But you may want to try it. You just don't know until you do.

Dave

All i have is some Hornady 150 FMJs..i don’t know if they'll do much better but i can whip up a batch yes the barrel is a #4 sporter not too thick but not too thin for my application. I am waiting 5 - 8 mins between shots but it just so damn hot out here in California right now it’s hard to stay cool especially because I am shooting in direct sun light not a bit of shade near my nick of the woods.
Here are some more pics (I’m a sucker for picture threads)
[img width=269 height=450]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/oOsIcKneSs/IMAG0402.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=358]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/oOsIcKneSs/IMAG0401.jpg[/img]

I agree the 11:1 twist should work on the 150's. So I have ask, what Powder are you using? 4350 and R19 are good powders. Funny though some fast burning powders do wonders when you are having trouble. I stumbled across 4064 for my 270 and will probably never change due to 1/2 inch 3 shot groups at 200.

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Originally Posted by oosickness

New never been shot, trimmed and sized and prepped Winchester brass
These where hand loads with 150gr Nosler BT under 50grs of Varget and WW primers

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i worked my way up to a max load of 51.6gr of varget and seemed to help abit but who knows. i still think my bedding needs a bit of work around the lug area