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I just got my first Savage Model 12 VLP in 22-250 I have the dies that the former owner gave me. They are RCBS 2 die full length sizer and seat set, and a RCBS neck sizer die. I reload for my 270, 308, and 223 AR-15 and just use the full length sizer dies.
My question is it better to just use the neck sizer die, or the full length die for the 22-250?
Thanks
With the neck sizer, You will eventually have to resort to the full length dies to push the shoulder back so cases chamber easily. Usually, neck sizing a case fired in you chamber will shoot a bit more accuratly. In a normal hunting rifle, the advantages of neck sizing are moot and you are better off to full length size to insure all rounds will chamber easily for a quick follow up shot.
My 22-250 is a Ruger No.1-V; I've got RP brass on its 6th sizing with a Lee Collet Die and it still chambers VERY easily.
Of course, its a single-shot breech loader and not a bolt action, but still...
In my model 12 LRPV with near full loads the cases get tight after 3-4 loads. At that point I re-size using a Redding body die. If I back the loads off for target shooting I get 5-6 loads before I need to re-size the body.
IMO just use the FL die, and put the neck die away. Many benchrest shooters are using FL dies over neck sizing dies. A properly set up FL die will preform well. 22/250 is one of my favorite rounds, just an all around great round. The only problem with it is the brass will need length trimmed about every 4 firings.
Well my vote would be to try it both ways and see. Let the results speak for themselves. My 22-250 responds better to neck sizing. I use the RCBS FL die the first time with new brass, then once it's been fired I don't FL size again until I can't close the bolt without undue effort. I use the same RCBS neck sizing die that you likely have.
In my humble opinion, the 22-250 standard case responds well to neck sizing due to it's degree of case body taper. The AI case may be less noticeable, all things being equal, how well the chamber dimensions match the die dimensions, etc.
You will get as many different view points as people you ask... it doesn't mean anyone is trying to lead you astray, it just means that peoples perceptions, experiences, and results have varied.
Each gun barrel is it's own individual creature, and should be tested on it's own to see what works best. The bright side is you get to do more shooting.
And that's always a good thing.
Great info here! I have always full length sized on all my rifles. I was just curious why he told mt that he just neck sized. I can see if you do not get much case bulge, then neck only would work.
Here's my first attempt at shooting it today. I know the rifle will do better that I can (for now) and I want to try different loads.
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He said it was sighted in at 250 yards. This was at 100 yards with a bit of a right to left crosswind.
His reloads! Load was Norma brass, 38 1/2grs of H380, 50gr VMAX bullet, and Federal Match Magnum primers.
That's not bad at all for a new rifle you're still learning. When mine still wore it's factory barrel, 38.0 grs of H-380, 50 gr Vmax, and Fed match primers would cut one hole. If I varied the powder up or down .5 grs, the group would open up. Now, with it's McGowen barrel, "the load" is 40.0 grs of same powder with all other components being the same. I was (am) using Remington brass.
Personally, I would lose the magnum primers and switch to the regular Fed match primers.
That's still good shooting though. With a bit of bench technique practice, and no wind, you may lose that flyer without any other changes.
What scope are you running, and how much magnification is in it? A big, clear scope will help you pick out the EXACT same point of aim spot on the target.
The scope is a Bushnell Elite 4200 4to12X40. I had it cranked all the way to 12
I'm going to test some loads I made today.
First one is 38grs of H380 (1/2gr less than I have already shot) 50gr Hornady VMAX @ COAL of 2.350
Second one is same except I used 34.3grs of IMR4064
I think I will stare out zeroing the rifle @ 100 yards with the ammo I already have, then test from there.
One question I do have, how many shots should I shoot before letting the barrel cool down? I'm use to just sighting in my hunting rifles, this is the first time I'm going to be shooting just for accuracy or group size.
I normally shoot 3 shot groups.
Does that sound like a good plan?
Well, since we're not talking benchrest match shooters here,
A good rule of thumb is to stop shooting it when the barrel gets too hot to touch comfortably. I normally shoot 5 shot groups when I'm testing load batches. I have a few tapered barrel magnums that I have to stop on the 3rd shot of 5 and wait for it to cool. I can shoot 5 at a sitting in my 22-250, as it's barrel is heavy enough that it doesn't heat up as quickly.
I normally run 5 shot test batches in .5 gr increments up to "max" for that powder. So if my "max" was 40.0 grs I would load 5 each at 38.0, 38.5, 39.0, 39.5 and 40.0. Then I would start at the lessor charged load and shoot my way to the max load, each 5 shot group into a different target. If I shot one I liked the looks of, I would then go back and load 25 rds of that identical recipe and try it all 25 into the same target. After that, I would know if that load was a "keeper" or not.
If I'm testing a 223 Rem sized case, then it's the same drill, but with .2 gr increments of powder and not .5 grs.
Just running one single test load at a time will take you forever to run through all the possibilities.
If my 5 runs of 5 initial test batch doesn't give me anything I like, then I change something and start over. Either bullet, or powder, or primer, or seating depth. But I only change one thing at a time.
If the weather's nice (not surface of the sun hot), I might take several different 5 of 5 test batches out in the same day.
I always write the bullet, powder and charge, primer, and seating depth on the side of the cartridge case so I can keep them straight in the ammo box and at the range.
That's pretty much the same way I work up my pistol loads for my Open Steel Challenge gun. The problem I have with the rifle is a lack of brass. I have enough to do a few different test loads, say 4 with 5 rounds each load. I will work on getting more brass so I can do more test loads.
I know my Rem 700 270 Custom Shop will do a 1/2MOA @ 100yds. I think that's pretty good, but I also think the Savage will do better.
kb;
That's is good advice from Slim.
As for brass, I would full length size them all at first to ensure that they are within spec and then neck afterwards until they get sticky. You can get a Lee collet neck sizer for $20 at most places that sell handloading supplies.
I need to find a good price on brass.
Where do you guys suggest?
I have never bought new brass for any of my .22-250's. It is by far my favorite round. I buy all my brass used on the forums. Some of the used stuff I have here has been loaded 11-12 times by me with out any issues. I see no point buying new brass when I can buy 1x or 2x fired brass for usually $10-$15 per hundred shipped.
Well honestly, compared to some of the brass I have to buy, 22-250 brass is pretty cheap. It's all relative I guess.
I normally buy my standard caliber brass from a local gun store if they have it. I have had good results with Remington brass in my rifle, and because of this I have not felt it necessary to look elsewhere. A bag or 2 of Rem 22-250 brass won't set you back a fortune. If you can't find it locally, then try "the usual supects", Midway, Midsouth, Graf's, etc. If I have to order online, then I'll usually comparison shop several sites at the same time, and buy from the cheapest one (factor in the shipping cost though-some will "get" you with shipping).
I would start with at least a "clean" (new) 100 pcs. Then I FL size, trim burrs out of flash holes, and trim case mouths flat and chamfer them. As I said earlier (and J C re emphasized) I only FL size the first time, then neck size only after that, until I have too much resistance when I close the bolt on a sized case, then I FL size again and start the ball rolling all over again. I'll usually have to trim the brass again after that second FL size pass. I think I have 8 or 10 reloads on my current batch of brass, and still rolling along just fine.
Not wanting to argue about buying used brass but this is what I see.
Just check my records and this was shot on a windy 34 degree day at 100 yds from the tailgate of a truck. Brass was bought used (3x fired) and was on it 13th FL sized reload by me. It was Winchester brass with a 50gr Nosler Ballistic Tip being powered by IMR-4895. 2 shots in the dime as who ever was shooting at it obviously ran out of rounds before the 3rd shot could be taken. I would never shoot at a piece of government property.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samdweezel05
Me either.
One more question. With the 1in12 twist, what's the highest grain bullet I should try shooting?
Hi if ever you get bored try some 40gr vmax's with 40gr of varget, it will put a bounce in your step work up to it you will be fine, when I have better quality brass that is new or seen few loads I can make it to 41gr before signs of pressure, fun for the whole family.
Dean
You might be able to spin up the 70 gr bullets if you drive them hard (ie at max pressure). I doubt you'll be able to use anything heavier. I have a 1-9" barrel in mine now (McGowen), and I still shoot the 50 gr Vmax, both because of "splat factor", and they come in a 250 ct box. I have a self imposed range limit of 500 yards max with my 22-250. If I need to shoot farther, I will pull out something bigger. If the wind kicks up, I will pull that range back to 300 yds and shoot something bigger at 500.Quote:
Originally Posted by kb7kuh
I've never understood why gunmakers will put a 1-9" factory barrel on a .223, but continue to put 1-12" barrels on their 22-250's. Makes no sense to me at all. Shame really, as I think it wastes the potential. I think a fast twist (1-9" or better yet 1-8") 22-250 with 75 to 80 gr bullets would completely take the place of my 243 winny. That is both good and bad, as I like the 243 winny, and I like having more guns! :D