Looking for Stock Bedding help

Hello Folks. I'm new to the forum, and joined up in hopes to learn more about my rifle and hopefully share a little bit of what I know when possible.

I have a Savage 10FLP pre '06 with staggered feed magazine and 4.25 action screw spacing. A Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x mildot reticle scope rides on top. The gun out of the box is one heck of a tack driver, but in the interest of trying to improve the accuracy of the rifle, as well as be able to shoot it more often, I've just gotten into reloading. I can't wait to get my "pet" load worked up and shoot some ragged one hole groups! Here's a pic of my first 5 round group at 100 yards after barrel break in, using 168 grain BTHPs. This was about 2 years ago.

[img width=600 height=399]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/Loudcherokee/Hunting%20RIfle/100_3715.jpg[/img]

A little off, but this was my first time shooting a scoped rifle since I was a kid, shooting just a small .22.

Anyways, to the topic title, I HATE the factory stock that this rifle came with. It rests on a bipod, and I can grab the cheekweld area with my finger and thumb and rotate the entire action and barrel away from the stock. Definitely more flimsy than I'd like to have it.

In a few weeks, I'm ordering a Bell and Carlson Medalist A2 stock from Midway. First task at hand of course is to cut the notch for the bolt in the left side to accommodate my inherited southpawedness >:( , and then fill in the notch on the right with Devcon or JB Weld. Then, it's bedding the stock to the action. This is where I'm having trouble.

I've been reading up, and so far have come to the conclusion that the ENTIRE barrel, from the barrel nut forward, should stay free-floated, as it is now in the factory stock, as well as the tang. It's the rest of it I am having a hard time grasping. I know the basics like making sure to get release agent all over the entire action and portion of the barrel, JUST IN CASE, and to wrap a couple of layers of electrical tape bands around the barrel starting at the nut, and a band every 3 or so inches to the end of the forearm of the stock, to make sure the barrel is lined up correctly. I'm having a hard time with some of the specifics though. How do I keep the bedding material out of the action screw holes, since I can't tape them off as I will be using the action screws to provide pressure on the action to the bedding? Besides a general roughing up, what should I do to prep the B&C stock for bedding? Do I apply bedding material around where the internal magazine sits, or tape that area off?

I've been looking around on the web, and found a couple decent walkthroughs, but I kind of need pictures. The videos on Youtube aren't very enlightening. I did get lucky in that the gentleman I spoke with today at Savage Gunsmithing was gracious enough to give me some pointers, almost a whole walkthrough, but I made the mistake of calling on my 15 minute break at work and didn't have alot of time to ask any questions or take notes. I remember most of what he said, but there was something he mentioned about foam in the B&C stock that I'd have to work with, but I can't remember what exactly.


Thanks for any help you can provide, and pictures would be GREAT! I'd especially love to see pictures of you lefties out there with your modified stocks that weren't available in lefty and you converted them!

LC

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Originally Posted by loudcherokee

Hello Folks. I'm new to the forum, and joined up in hopes to learn more about my rifle and hopefully share a little bit of what I know when possible.

I have a Savage 10FLP pre '06 with staggered feed magazine and 4.25 action screw spacing. A Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x mildot reticle scope rides on top. The gun out of the box is one heck of a tack driver, but in the interest of trying to improve the accuracy of the rifle, as well as be able to shoot it more often, I've just gotten into reloading. I can't wait to get my "pet" load worked up and shoot some ragged one hole groups! Here's a pic of my first 5 round group at 100 yards after barrel break in, using 168 grain BTHPs. This was about 2 years ago.

I'm having a hard time with some of the specifics though. How do I keep the bedding material out of the action screw holes, since I can't tape them off as I will be using the action screws to provide pressure on the action to the bedding? Besides a general roughing up, what should I do to prep the B&C stock for bedding? Do I apply bedding material around where the internal magazine sits, or tape that area off?

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I would suggest to replace the recoil lug with a machined recoil lug.

Use a lot of release agent. A lot of people here use shoe polish. I have not tried that yet.

I am no expert, but yes rough it up, maybe remove a bit of material from the action pads and recoil lug area so you get a decent amount of epoxy.

Remove the trigger, bolt etc from the action.
Fill all the holes with clay. Basically anything you do not want to get epoxy in.
Use no bedding material in the mag area. Some will probably run into it anyway

Basically what you are trying to do is a few things.
Make sure the action is evenly supported by the front and rear pads, and more importantly make sure the recoil lug is fully bedded
and the action screws are centered in the holes, IE not bound and not taking any recoil.

To do that get some say 2" long 1/4" bolts with the right thread (28 tpi I think ??) to use in the action while bedding, and wrap them in electrical or other tape to make sure they are centered.

Tape the edges and FRONT face of the recoil lug with several layers of thick tape, so there is a small gap when you assemble the rifle. You dont want the recoil lug to bottom out.

I put mine on a rifle stand and wrap electrical tape to hold the action on the stock.

Let it sit overnight and keep your fingers crossed.

Thats about all I can think of.

This a quick list of my rules I follow.
I electrical tape everything on the action that doesn't get bedded. This keeps it out of holes and slots for the trigger.

I electrical tape the action where it sticks out of stock for easy cleanup.

I use long screws with the heads cut off, and grease the threads the whole way. This keep the screw holes inline and hold the hole for the real action screws. I push the screws down through the bedding, then make sure they turn free every hour or so while it sets up. Then unscrew them from the bottom before popping it out.

I use very minimal release agent but make sure it is everywhere. If you use too much release agent you will create a void and it won't be a tight bed job. I use kiwi shoe polish. Never had a problem, put it on heavy and wipe it all off, just like polishing your shoes.

Masking tape the entire stock, from the edge where the channel begins all the way around and end to end.

Fill all areas of the stock with modeling clay (non-hardening) that aren't going to be bedded.

Patience is the most important thing, make sure the bedding can't seep over or into anything and hold the action.

On savages I float the nut and barrel so I can change the barrel and not mess with the bedding. This has always worked for me but some worry about the recoil lug moving when changing the barrel.

If I was you I would practice on the old stock first so you can get the feel for it. My first one was a bit messy.

These are just my tricks there is more to it, watch videos and read as much as you can. You will come up with your own ways that work for you. This is my favorite part about getting a new rifle, another bedding job.

If you want pictures, check out this link. http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html He is bedding a singleshot so you will have the magwell to contend with unlike the pics you see. I had no problem keeping the epoxy out of mine, but you can fill it with playdough, plumbers putty, styrofoam cut to fit, etc. I wanted some Devcon, but it was not available locally. I used JB Weld and added some micro-balloon filler like that used with other epoxies and it made a good consistency. You can get some at a marine store that sells epoxy, or perhaps an automotive paint store.

On my next stock, I will plan ahead better and have some Devcon on hand to see how it compares to the JB Weld.

Good luck,

Dennis

I am sorta starting to grasp it.

I've read in a couple of places about the rear pillar needing to be notched to clear the sear. I'm not sure if this applies to my rifle or not, or the B&C stock. If so, should I avoid bedding that area to avoid any problems?

Also, how do I remove the parts from the action, such as the trigger and magazine? I haven't broken the rifle down yet since I don't have the stock in hand, so hopefully this will be simple.

LC

Personally, I followed the video step by step. I DID NOT remove anything, just put some masking tape around the trigger assembly and mag box and put some Johnsons wax on everything. I made sure my pillar holes would accept the screws and pillars and waxed the screws only. Yes, the same stock screws. Put Devcon 10110 on the pillars and in the stock and smooshed them together and put a wrap of tape around the stock with action in.

IMPORTANT: At about 4 hours I undid the tape and removed the screws and removed action form stock. This allows time for set up, but gives you time to make sure the stock and action ARE NOT permanently glued together. Clean and notch as necessary, and reassemble for 12 hours at least.

YMMV

Larry
Tinkerer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinkerer

Personally, I followed the video step by step. I DID NOT remove anything, just put some masking tape around the trigger assembly and mag box and put some Johnsons wax on everything. I made sure my pillar holes would accept the screws and pillars and waxed the screws only. Yes, the same stock screws. Put Devcon 10110 on the pillars and in the stock and smooshed them together and put a wrap of tape around the stock with action in.

IMPORTANT: At about 4 hours I undid the tape and removed the screws and removed action form stock. This allows time for set up, but gives you time to make sure the stock and action ARE NOT permanently glued together. Clean and notch as necessary, and reassemble for 12 hours at least.

YMMV

Larry
Tinkerer

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What video are you referring to?

I think from reading and looking at pictures that the recoil lug area is going to be fairly simple. I know to tape the sides and front of the lug, then fill the notch with bedding material. The front action screw should be included with this also, and fairly easy.

I'm mainly concerned with the rear action screw area, and with getting bedding material somewhere that It doesn't belong. I don't want to jam up the action/trigger area somehow.

Lc

loudcherokee

Read the article below on glass bedding and the receiver flexing when tightening the receiver action screws. It appears that pillar bedding or complete action block is the better way to go and just skim bedding if needed

No. 1. Pillar Bedding, and the flexible Remington receiver.
http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i130.html

No.2. Glass Bedding Vs. Aluminum Pillar Bedding
http://erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i133.html

If you click on the link above, it takes you to the pillar bedding page. On that page is the link to his video.

Very instructional.

I bedded from about 1" before the nut to the rear of the front pillar area, around the mag box (barely under the sides of the action) to the front of the Savage trigger release, around the rear pillar, and under the rear tang with a layer of masking tape on it. Than the front pillar and area are well bedded, and the rear pilalr solid, and a little under the sides of the action. Nothing else is touching. This way the mag box is not held in the bedding, the pillars and the recoil lug are taking all the rear pressure. Be sure to clean around the sides well for a professional look. Also, be sure to fill the barrel nut grooves before bedding to keep from them locking the action to the stock.

Larry
Tinkerer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinkerer

If you click on the link above, it takes you to the pillar bedding page. On that page is the link to his video.

Very instructional.

I bedded from about 1" before the nut to the rear of the front pillar area, around the mag box (barely under the sides of the action) to the front of the Savage trigger release, around the rear pillar, and under the rear tang with a layer of masking tape on it. Than the front pillar and area are well bedded, and the rear pilalr solid, and a little under the sides of the action. Nothing else is touching. This way the mag box is not held in the bedding, the pillars and the recoil lug are taking all the rear pressure. Be sure to clean around the sides well for a professional look. Also, be sure to fill the barrel nut grooves before bedding to keep from them locking the action to the stock.

Larry
Tinkerer

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Oh I see. You bought the video. I clicked there and looked around, and all I could find was the short clip.

Thanks for all the help so far folks. Good info here. I'll be ordering the stock soon.

LC

Got my stock ordered. I'm getting everything prepped for the job. The stock and 2 packages of the 2oz tubes of Devcon are on the way. Got my vise mounted to my bench. Got 3 inch 1/4 28tpi bolts that I'll be cutting the heads off of. Got a 1 inch wooden dowel and some 60 grit sandpaper incase I need to open the barrel channel for the bull barrel on my 10FLP. I think I'm ready to go.

In looking over my action, I've come across something I'm not sure what to do with. How do I protect the bolt release lever from becoming embedded in the bedding putty? Should I put a few layers of masking tape over it so the devcon doesn't touch it, and so there is clearance for it to move? Is putty even going to go into this area? It's right above the rear action screw.

LC

I don't put any bedding around the bolt release lever, but stop right before it on the side with a little at the sides. If your careful about your inletting, there really is minimal area to bed on the sides at all. The video shows him just covering the inlet in the stock with bedding and pressing down and than removing all he does not need, but he also removes all the trigger and mag area so its smooth and than backs up and cuts that area out. I just cover with tape and plenty of Johnsons paste wax everything I do not want bedded. Again, take your time and remove everything at the 4 hour mark just in case you have any interference. If you wait, you might have a permanently bedded action.

I also use my standard stock screws so they are bedded as well, just be sure to wax them thoroughly. And I clean around the head immediately after bedding so I have clearance to remove them straight out.

Larry
Tinkerer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tinkerer

I don't put any bedding around the bolt release lever, but stop right before it on the side with a little at the sides. If your careful about your inletting, there really is minimal area to bed on the sides at all. The video shows him just covering the inlet in the stock with bedding and pressing down and than removing all he does not need, but he also removes all the trigger and mag area so its smooth and than backs up and cuts that area out. I just cover with tape and plenty of Johnsons paste wax everything I do not want bedded. Again, take your time and remove everything at the 4 hour mark just in case you have any interference. If you wait, you might have a permanently bedded action.

I also use my standard stock screws so they are bedded as well, just be sure to wax them thoroughly. And I clean around the head immediately after bedding so I have clearance to remove them straight out.

Larry
Tinkerer.

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I've thought about removing the trigger group, but after inspecting it, I'm a little afraid to try and take it off. There's all kinds of springs and pins, and I'm afraid I would launch a spring into the unknown. I'm also not sure if I'd be able to get it back together. I can't find any instructions online about dissasembly of the trigger group from the action.

My only fear about using the factory action screws is pushing compound up into the action. I know to wax the screws ALOT if I do this, but wont the screw push bedding up into the action?

LC

I plug the action threads with modeling clay the bedding won't get into it but the bolt will push it out when you thread it in.

Well here are the results. I ended up pulling the action too soon, and had to add more putty and set it back in there. Was real nervous for that next 7 hours. 5 hours was too soon the first time. It's cold in my basement I guess. I'm happy with the results, and everything seems to be fitting properly. I'm not sure how to tell if there is any bind in the action. The bolt rides smoothly open and shut, except for one little quirk. If I close the bolt and let it sit for 5 minutes, it's stiff to open up that first time, but then everything is ok. Is this a sign of something bad?

[img width=600 height=450]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e210/Loudcherokee/Hunting%20RIfle/2011-02-18021542.jpg[/img]

LC

loudcherokee, try leaving the bolt closed when it is out of the action, and see if it is hard to open....unless you stressed the action during the bedding, it should not cause a problem.....i didn't read all the posts, but how did you hold the action to the stock while the bedding was curing? Some people say to use the action screws, but i believe as the link above stated, that the screws can induce flex into the action by too much pressure....just a thought....rsbhunter

I figured it out. Still perplexing, but at least I know it's not my bedding job.

I removed the action from the stock, took the scope rail off, to make sure absolutely nothing would be binding the action. Then I discovered the following.

The bolt is not stiff after I leave it sit for 5 minutes. It's stiff after I pull the trigger and then go to open it. That's the ONLY difference. I didn't realize this last night when I thought it was just after I let it sit. With the bolt cocked, I can open and close with ease. The only resistance the bolt is experiencing is against the follower in the magazine when I slide it open and shut. Other than that it rides smooth.

So looks like my bedding job is ok! I couldn't go out and shoot today. WAY too much wind to get an accurate result, and since I'll be sighting in a new scope at the same time, I'd like the conditions to be VERY calm.

LC

i think it is common the the bolt to be harder to open right after trigger pull because it is "cocking" the firing mechanism... I am no expert tho... hopefully one of the experts stops by..


BUMP