Printable View
Do all the savage 12 lrp rifles have a more less hard bolt lift even with a empty chamber..
After I have fired a shot I have to hold the butt of the rifle ( shooting of bench rest) and give the handke a good bump with the palm of my hand. If this is common is there a way to make it smoother on the lift ...
Thanks for taking the time to read..
It’s a known issue with our Savages. And there are little tricks one can perform to alleviate the lift. There are many, many threads concerning it. I, along with many others have done a fair amount to eliminate the problem. In the other recent thread on this page, “Bolt Handle to scope clearance” I posted a video showing what can be achieved.
A Lift Kit, longer bolt handle & bolt polishing will greatly reduce lift effort. Can also lighten the firing pin spring a bit, but I wouldn’t unless you understand all of this 100%, and know how much. (Unless you have the newer style firing pin).
Can the bolt be polished if it looks like the bolt has the plastic looking sleeve over it
I’m not quite sure what you are referring to. The polishing is done inside the bolt body, and more importantly the cocking pin ramp. If you don’t understand those, it’s not something you should jump into. Go with a lift kit and a longer bolt handle, like Glades Armory for now. Those two make a considerable difference. I even make lift kits as I can and give them to members here. But I don’t have any at the moment.
No matter what you do to make the Savage bolt lift any easier, it'll never be as smooth as my Remington XP 100. I know, I've tried.
T&T? Waste of time IMHO. Lift kits? If it makes you feel better, go for it. Longer bolt handles do make some difference but not much.
I know because all of my Savage rigs have them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie
The Obsolete single shot pistol thing? Uh, yeah..ok. As for the Savage. Watch my video. You are uninformed. We get it.
What's it like when you close and lock the bolt on an empty chamber? Why I ask, years ago I went to Shydas just to look around when I saw they had Stevens 200s on sale, $229, $20 off. I walked out with four of them. Got them home but one seemed to have problem, the bolt was both hard to close and open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrykwebb
When my wheels started turning and the only thing I could come with what could be the cause was the primary extraction so tried of the bolts from the other three rifles in that action, no problem.
Now, I forget the measurement but IIRC the PE for that bolt-rear baffle -action was somewhere in the .100"-.110" range, In other words the PE cam was still engaged while the locking lugs haven't quite cleared the action's lug abutment lead in ramps, they were doing battle with each other. So grabbed a baffle out of my parts(junk) box, installed it...problem fixed.
Now, I'm not saying its the problem with your rifle but its worth a look.
Bill
Can you post a pic OP? I’m still wondering what the plastic looking deely is on the bolt??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrykwebb
just a thought, make sure the length of your front action screw is correct. If it is a tad too long the bolt could open fine on an empty chamber or unfired cases but could be tight once that case is fireformed to the chamber. Easy way to tell is to fire a round the way it is now. Then notice the hard bolt lift. Then loosen the front action screw and see if the bolt lift is still the same or better.
if it does it with an empty chamber then loosen the action screw and see if it changes.
It could also cause there to be rub marks on the outside of the lugs on the bolthead.
Have seen these issues before and it’s easily overlooked. Just something else you can check off as a cause if it’s not it.
For the lift kit to function correctly it needs a shortened BAS or a spacer. A reduced rate spring works wonders also. A longer bolt handle gives you more leverage but has diminishing returns as you get longer, and it doesn't stop the rifle from being upset when used alone without the other things utilized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
Precisely. If done correctly, in combination, I’ve proven the change they can make.
Dave did you shorten the BAS or add a spacer? Did you find another spring or how did you reduce the spring rate? What Lift kit did you use? Did you test with a torque wrench to see the change or just by the seat of your pants?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
TIA
I thought you knew all this, Robin?:smile-new: I shorten the BAS, & make my own Lift Kits. I start by boring a hole for a piece of .234” Tungsten rod. Then I machine the Lift Plate from 6Al4V Titanium, drill a small hole and press in a 4mm or 5mm Si3N4(Silicone Nitride BB). I made several and gave them to members here. At some point I’ll make some more to give away. Here was the tread about this. https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...Carbide-(Pics) Also I currently use a clipped spring, but I am looking for a reduced rate spring of correct size. I’ve tested several but have not found the right one yet. Oh, and no I don’t put any gauge on it to test. I’ve simply gone by what makes me smile. I think my video shows how light and smooth the bolt is. Is it a professional Race Gun? Of course not. But it’s about the nicest feeling Savage I’ve ever seen.
Not to mention how little I have had to spend to get to this point.
And a pic of my lift kit.
https://i.ibb.co/82fWzyJ/057-D6-B68-...C6-BA3-DEC.jpg
I do remember. I wanted you to post all of that for the OP to see rather than you just talk about it. I have a reduced rate spring with your name on it. It will cost you an unmolested factory spring though. It will not disappoint.
Ahhh, I’m baggin’ what you’re rakin’. Sorry, I still have some residual brain damage from the accident. (Yesterday was the 6yr anniversary of it...geez!) LOL!:stupid:
(The Obsolete single shot pistol thing? Uh, yeah..ok.)
Was a matta? You no likie??
One of the best single shot actions ever made and still is. Hit steel out to and past 400 + yards with no issues, and that's with a 10" barrel.
All of my Savage rigs are set up as "single shots".
No ejector springs or rods. Case stays on the bolt head till "I" take it off.
And no chasing brass, ever.
The Remington XP 100 just happens to work smoother that any Savage ever will!!
Trying chambering a Savage to .221 Fireball. Get it to feed? Get it to extract? Good luck with either.
How bout chambering to a 20 VT or 20 SCC? Or 17 VHA? The list goes on and on.
If I read your post properly, the issue is at the top of the bolt open cycle. Frequently this issue is caused by the rear primary extraction ramp trying to move the bolt rearward before the bolt head lugs are clearing the abutments. So it's a timing issue. To isolate this issue, it is best to remove the cocking pin from the firing pin assy. This eliminates the feel of the cocking pin dropping into the cocking pin notch, another possible issue to iron out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrykwebb
To check for this, slowly move the bolt handle upwards until you feel the resistance you describe. Now look at the rear baffle where the bolt handle has a ramp that engages a similar ramp on the rear baffle. If the baffle is tight against the rear of the action well before the bolt handle nears the fully up position, it may be hitting the extraction ramp too soon. Removing some material from the ramp on the bolt handle or the rear baffle can help.
To discover the exact bolt handle position where the bolt head is clear of the abutments, remove the bolt from the action, grab the rear baffle and rotate it so the ball detent is out of its track, rotating towards the cocking ramp opening in the the bolt body. Slide the baffle over the opening and remove. When ready to replace do the opposite.
With the rear baffle off, re-insert the bolt into the action and close the bolt. Now open while exerting a slight rearward pressure. Note the angle of the handle when the bolt slips rearward. There is a small ramp on the bolt abutments inside the action that you can't see without removing the barrel. You'll feel these as you rotate the bolt while pulling backwards. The bolt head lugs should be "on the ramp" as the rear baffle primary extraction ramps engage each other.
Another possible case of hard opening is the cocking pin notch. If in checking the bolt timing per above you find a smooth opening, and that it's not the issue causing hard bolt life, disassemble the bolt to its major components.
Look closely at the cocking ramp where it transitions to a notch. Frequently there is a burr on the inside bore on the point of the transistion. Smoothing this burr off helps the cocking pin round that corner and drop into the notch. Slightly rounding that corner also helps, but don't overdo it.
Once you're this deep into the bolt, you'll begin to understand how the bolt works and where some polishing and lubrication can help. As others have mentioned, polishing the cocking pin ramp is helpful as well as lubrication. Installing a bolt lift kit reduces bolt lift, as well as perfecting the bolt timing as described above, and polishing the firing pin threads and inside of the cocking sleeve. Note: when replacing the sleeve, you'll have to adjust the rear nut to get the hole to align perfectly with the sleeve. Be sure to take note of the star washer that engages the sleeve. There is a flat on that washer that slides along the firing pin, it will will tend to hang up on the firing pin threads unless its properly centered. With a little fussing and you'll get it centered.
Once you've accomplished all these actions, a smooth, single finger bolt lift is obtainable.
Be sure to write back if you encounter any problems performing these repairs/modifications.
This thread has nothing to do with the XP100 or 221 fireball. (Both obsolete!) Actually no I don’t like them. Have never been the slightest bit interested in the XP100 or 221FB for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie
It’s very nice that you enjoy them. I’m sure some people on a Remington XP100 forum would love to hear all about it. Oh, and 400yds isn’t even much of a stretch for my 223 AR’s, let alone my Savage bench gun in 260Rem.
Dave, would it be possible to get a link to your video?
I’m sorry, of course I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sDyuqH6kNQQuote:
Originally Posted by sscav