How tight?

I've been test driving a model 12 for a few outings, and have had issues with the bolt not closing, and or not wanting to come back after failing to lock up. It did it today, and after cussing it, and some muscle I got it open and the shell out. Afterwards; I tried just the bolt, and even it wouldn't close on an empty chamber. The gun also has a habit of the trigger locking up. Meaning even the blade in the trigger wouldn't budge. Cycle the bolt again, and it has fired ok.

Turned out the screw on the back of the bolt was loose by a few threads. Tightened it up snug, and it fed ok from there on out, but the trigger did lock up again about 10 rds later. How tight is that screw on the rear of the bolt supposed to be? Any idea why the trigger locks up now and then? My friend had originally told me he thought it threw a flyer on the first shot after the trigger locked, but now says he's unsure if it was just the aggravation of getting off the gun and cocking it again that made him pull the shot.

I bet one of the action screws is protruding into the action. These problems happen to people in different ways. Many of us here know exactly what to look for, but without seeing it, it becomes difficult to zero in on the culprit. Have you removed the action from the stock? I would do that first and inspect everything. As for the BAS, just make sure it’s tight. I don’t know the torque spec, but it’s not crucial. Don’t need to strain your arm trying to torque it...Just cinch it tight with an Allen wrench.

What model is it and is it new or used? 12 LRP, 12 FV etc...?

I believe Dave is correct. The standard test, back the front and rear action screws out at least one full turn. Try the bolt operation. If this works you need to pillar bed your stock or slightly shorten your screws. If this is the case you may be being affected by material compression. Also if this is not the original stock it may need clearancing in the trigger area... on the outside chance something is dragging

It's a model 12 benchrest dual port. Today was only my second time shooting it, and I haven't done anything to it besides tighten the screw in the back of the bolt . The trigger locking up thing happened 3? times out of 50? rds. The last time being today shooting a string of 35? rds after tightening up the rear bolt screw

2 issues. The trigger locking up is due to it being tripped. This happens when the trigger slips of the sear before the safety blade is depressed. Many times it is due to the trigger being set to light and when the bolt closes the trigger does not catch the sear and the safety blade does is job and prevents an unexpected firing. the second one is the action screws are slightly too long and are pushing against the bolt and or bolt head depending on which one is too long.

Good to know. I was wondering if the bolt had in fact failed to recock. The trigger breaks at a fuzz less than a lb, and from what I've heard it could be adjusted lower? I don't believe the action screws are affecting the bolt operating. The thing was falling apart IMO. lol I shot this gun 25? times a few days ago like this not realizing the looseness thing on the ass end of the bolt wasn't normal. I haven't had a chance to ask him, but I'm assuming my friend shot it 30-40 times ? in this state as well.

I don't know much about Savage, but had always heard they have sloppy bolts. That was enough for me to mindlessly overlook the slop, and shoot the gun in a unsafe condition. Feeling kinda dumb for not catching on earlier, but I thought the condition was related to how far down the neck I sized a case with a bushing die.

Mr. Hood, as usual (always) is correct. I would increase pull by a few ounces and see what happens. How tight for the rear screw on the bolt rear? Don't go crazy, just use a hex that fits and hand tighten. Each subsequent time you take it to the range, see if it has loosened up. I speak from experience, not knowledge, but experience. As to the action screws, never rely on a previous owner or Savage to have the proper torque. I don't know what it is for your particular rifle, but someone here sure does. If proper torque does not work and the screw is causing the lock up, ask Mr. Hood, who might suggest you grind down the offending screw a bit.

Bolt lock up problem, might be action screw to long, or front scope base screw to long. Maybe combination of both.

I believe the OP said he found the bas screw loose and this solved the bolt closure problems.
He wanted to know how much to tighten it
This has came up before as far as torque.
Sharpshooter if I remember didn't have the savage answer.
Factory ones are super tight. Thread size 1/2-28? Would call for min double digit foot/lbs. (Not inch lbs).
Second problem as Robinhood mentioned the accutriggers is probably set too light.
My .02

Thanks for catching that Bogboy and frotheringill. After rereading his post, the action screw thing was way off.

Yes, that was a good catch bogboy And thank you for mentioning bolt torque. I could explain the formula to sound intelligent...but it’s easier to just show a free calculator. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...or-d_2065.html
BTW... the “k” or Constant, is actually coefficient of friction. They list mild steel at .2, but alloy gun steel (4140), is more like .15 or lower. Great time, where we can simply look any of this up. But you do need to know what to look for...a reference knowledge to pull from.

Some people, like me have have had careers that blessed us with a “Calculated Elbow”. Those that know will get that. LOL.

Yeah, but my calibrated elbow let me down a few times and I had to go out and buy a torque wrench. Much cheaper than having to drill out and tap to a larger size cause you have stripped the threads :) And, no, I have NEVER done such a thing LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

Yeah, but my calibrated elbow let me down a few times and I had to go out and buy a torque wrench. Much cheaper than having to drill out and tap to a larger size cause you have stripped the threads :) And, no, I have NEVER done such a thing LOL

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LOL! Indeed... and thank you. I didn’t see the auto correct get me! It is indeed a CALIBRATED Elbow. And it took many moons to develop. LOL! Of course it’s a joke. I have always used a torque wrench when critical. Things like barrel nuts(Savage & AR’s), bearing bolt preloads, head gasket bolts/studs/nuts..these are examples of torque values which should NEVER be “guessed” on. I don’t care HOW developed I might think my Elbow is! That said, the BAS is not ultra torque critical. An Allen wrench and good hand cinching is all that is required. But Savage does have a torque spec on it. I’m sure it can be found with a little searching. And for torque snobs(which ISN’T intended as a dig), the formula is fine as well. The BAS is pretty dumb and doesn’t really care how tight it is. Just needs to be enough so it doesn’t come loose, or so much that it’s overly difficult to remove. But I wouldn’t look down on someone wanting the exact torque value. I think we all can agree on that, yes?

As to action screw torque, i won't bore anyone with a story of a thumb tightened single action screw on a CZ 452 .22lr that was thumb (or other finger) tightened when returned by CZ.

Factory torque might read; "tight enough so that when you remove it you will have to put the bolt on the floor and stomp on a 6 inch Allen wrench with a cheater pipe slipped over the bolt handle (make sure your boots have a tough sole or the Allen wrench will puncture it)".

I put about 25 rds thru it today without a hiccup. When the bolt locked up the other day It was during a match. I got up and asked a few savage guys for help, and after getting it unstuck , and realizing it wouldn't close even on an empty chamber... the one fellow noticed the handle flopping around. I grabbed my ( 6"allen wrench ), snugged it up. and finished the relay.

With the Accutrigger, when the sear slips and the safety blade catches it and stops a slamfire. Does the gun fire when you depress the blade? Or, does it "lock up" as stated above? How do you "unlock it"? Just open the bolt to reset sear? Does the safety blade always/usually stop a slam fire?

We just acquired our first Accutrigger and will be installing the varmint spring. Slam fires are a SUPRISE fact of life when you try to set regular triggers too light, I like the idea that the safety blade on the accrtrigger will/may stop that SUPRISE.

Bill

At this point, I don't believe the trigger issue is related to the bolts issue (rear screw being loose in that case). The trigger "locked up" once during the match after tightening the bolt screw up, so I believe the guys above are spot on about it. I have the tool to adjust it, but haven't applied myself to the task as of yet. When it happened the red blade was tight, and wouldn't allow me to pull thru to depress the actual trigger. I just work the bolt to recock it and fire.

Savage does not have an established torque value on anything except barrel nuts. Bolt assembly screws are installed with an impact gun, and will vary with each individual assembler. The only other thing that is checked with a torque wrench is the trigger when setting the safety adjustment.The torque wrench is applied to the trigger and pulled to 40 ftlb to check the stretch of the trigger bracket. This is to insure the safety engages in any condition. Other than that, none of the screws are torqued to anything specific but hand tight. When asked about a torque spec, they'll throw a number out to satisfy curious minds, but that doesn't mean they use it.

If I'm understanding your post, you've got a model 12, three screw, large shank target action with the red blade Target Accutrigger?

You might be interested in this article regarding torque tuning the action screws; https://www.accurateshooter.com/tech...torque-tuning/

The Target Accutrigger is known to be finicky when set to a light pull. Any side effort applied to the trigger will causes it go into safe mode. Shims are available to eliminate side play and this can help, so will setting the pull a bit heavier. https://www.triggershims.com/

You found the BAS looseness issue, is the bolt opening without a hitch now? If not, you may need to take a little off the primary extraction ramps at the bolt handle and rear baffle. Timing is important there.

Good luck and be sure write back with your findings and successes.

Yes, model 12 dual port with red blade and 3 action screws. I have no idea on shank? When the blade locks it appears the trigger fails to cock upon working the bolt. I assume it's simply too light as suggested. It isn't my rifle, so I doubt I mess with that. Thank you for posting the link, I may try that. I've shot/loaded the load I was given with the gun, and after a bit of testing charge and seating depths on each side of it... the load I was given shoots best.

That said, I am seeing vertical, and getting some flyers. I haven't shot it enough to be used to it, or to see where it want's to be in the bags, so perhaps a few of the flyers are me, or the wind ... certainly not all of them are. I don't have a torque driver to set the action screws, but the rear screw is 5 to 10 lbs at most and the front two are tight. Without the driver I wouldn't be able to bring it back to where it's at now. I have a ocw/ladder test loaded up to shoot @ 200. I'm looking for the same waterline, and I'll explore the results of that. My friend shot a ladder ( all at the same aiming point) @ 100 . He loaded 4/10's spread between charges, and working up... the last 6 shots made one 1/2" to 5/8" hole on the target. I haven't seen that out of it yet, but I know it's there.

It is a large shank, important to know if ordering a new custom barrel. Savages are available in small or large shank. The rear action screw torque will make a big difference in your groups. I would humbly suggest you get a torque wrench, Harbor Freight has them for under $20, and start there. Also run a couple dollars stacked together under the barrel to make sure it's free floated. May explain the flyers. Also under the safety tang. I run a .005 feeler under it and remove wood as necessary until it's free floating.

YMMV.

hollowhunter,

Your symptoms with the Accu-trigger locking up sound very familiar.
I don't think the adjustment mechanism is any different on any of the Accu-triggers.
The springs are different but the adjustment mechanisms that set the springs are the same and the screw that keeps the trigger set can get loose.

I had the Varmint Accu-trigger setting loosen up on an old .308 10 FCP-K after about 2,500 rounds. I initially had set it at 2 lbs. (about 0.5 lb. above minimum).
When the screw loosened, the trigger would lock up when I closed the bolt aggressively. Working the bolt would reset the trigger so I could fire if I was easy on it. Sound familiar?
Also, any pressure to the side also would lock up the trigger, requiring me to re operate the bolt to cock the action.
I tightened up the adjustment screw and reset the trigger to 2 lbs. and put Loc-tite on the threads.
The rifle now has well over 4,000 rounds through it and the trigger is still set at 2 lbs and lock-ups are a thing of the past.

I have never had a problem with the red target Accu-trigger on my 12 LRP after 4,000 rounds.
It came from the factory with the trigger set at 10 oz. but I reset it to 1 lb. 2 oz. because it was too different from all my other target rifles that are set to 2 lbs.

But I am noticing the symptoms of loosening on the Varmint Accu-trigger on my new 12 FV .223 after just under 1,000 rounds. It came from the factory with a 1 lb. 9 oz. trigger, just a bit above the minimum.
I never reset it to 2 lbs. It is just beginning to show the symptoms that my old 10 FCP-K showed if I operate the bolt too aggressively.
I guess I'll have to get out the Loc-tite when I readjust the trigger on the 12 FV .223 also.