110 Timney trigger issues...

I have a 3006 110 that my Dad bought me in 1993. Love the gun (as I do all Savages) , but the trigger is about to drive me nuts.

Long read coming...I'll apologize in advance.

Back in 2002 or so I got serious about handloading, accuracy, etc. I never could get as good of a trigger out of my 06, as my 243 and 7 mag 110s. I was also limited also by local gunsmith who would work on 110 triggers. So..I ordered a Timney for the 06. Right off the bat the trigger wasn't right. To get a nice pull, the trigger would have an unacceptable amount of creep. Get creep right and other issues showed. Messed w the trigger for what seemed like ages. Gave up and took the gun to a semi local gunsmith. He had it a month or so. Said he got it right. Nope. Still creep. No different than what I obtained from it. Called Timney. Shipped complete gun back to them. They said they would get it right. Get gun back. Trigger way light, probably a lb at best, but no creep. Broke clean. Ok, I'll shoot some groups, work up a nice load...then send gun back and have trigger put back to 2.5 to 3 lbs.

Go to range. Get about 7 to 8 rounds down the pipe and it misfires. Hmmm. Fire a few more, then another missfire. Get home and look gun over. Gun slam fired on every slapping of bolt. Called Timney. They told me what to adjust, can't remember what it was. Go back to range. Total repeat of above.

Was beyond sick of messing w it, so gun goes into the safe. A few years later I met a local guy through work who does gunsmithing. Time goes by, says it's fixed. Get gun back a couple weeks ago. Thought I would load up some reduced loads for enjoyment. Took gun to range today...and same thing. Hung fired on 7th and 11th round. Primers from these 2 shells not dimpled near as much ad other rounds. I checked bolt for slam firing before I went to the range. All looked good. Now it slam fires when bolt is slammed hard. Also slam fired once when I was closing bolt on empty chamber at range, regular force.

Get gun home and pull action/barrel out of stock. From what I can tell, when cocked, there is a visible gap between trigger and sear. The sear is not sitting on the screw, but against the trigger, hope that makes sense. Trigger can be rotated by hand and sear lines up over the screw. But will not line up correctly on it's own. Played w trigger. Tightened safety. Adjusted pull weight up and down. Nothing helps.

I've also noticed that when dry snapping, it doesn't have near the snap that my other 110s and one 12 have.

The action never gave me an ounce of trouble before the timney.

Any ideas on what to do to get this thing right?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any help.

If you are having hang fires, The hang fires are caused by your "reduced loads" not anything to do with the rifle and they can be very dangerous. No doubt you are below published minimums which is a NO NO. Not just because you dont know when they'll go boom but dangerous overpressure is a possibility.
It's a physics thing that few fully understand but severe over pressure can result from such loads. That's why every single loading manual that I have seen specifically warns against going above or below published minimums.
If you want to reduce loads the best and safest way I'm aware of to do so is using H4895 and Hodgdons reduced load data using their 60% of max formula. https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/upl...ifle-loads.pdf You can also call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed, 913-362-9455.

As far as the trigger goes, From what you describe, pure speculation but it sounds to me like the first guy may have tried to polish sear engagement surfaces and rounded em off or changed the angle. Sounds like the guys at Timney may have been close and just needed to back off the sear a hair and/or may not have realized if (pure speculation) someone had monkeyed with the sear surface. Sounds like they and the third guy may have the sear adjustment set a little light and if so they dont stand a chance of getting it right the surfaces are as I speculate and may be "boogered" up. Savage trigger jobs are fairly simple straightforward and safe for someone with a basic mechanical aptitude and understanding of how they work.
A trigger spring that's adjusted without an arch in it can also result in an improper set of the sear and slam fires and erratic cocking. If no one messed with the sear surface then that may very well be the problem. I always replace the trigger spring with a lighter one when doing a trigger job but I also always make sure there is sufficient tension and a slight arch in the new spring as well. Just reducing tension by setting the old spring flat is a recipe for disaster.

The rifle wont stay cocked if the trigger and sear are not making contact as the bolt stop sear combo is what holds it in the cocked position. If the bolt handle is up, that's not cocked. It cocks on closing with the trigger pushed forward by the spring at which point the sear should set against the trigger.

Good luck and above all be safe

Seeing how multiple “gunsmiths” & manufacture has tried unsuccessful to adjust the trigger could it be that your problem may not be the trigger. Firing pin not striking the primer sounds like something in the bolt dragging or binding. Just a thought.

My reduced loads...are H4895 loads. Im not a rookie handloader and researched the H4895, blue dot, trail boss reduced loads. Further
..it misfired the first 2 trips to the range with standard loads...so that is def not the issue.

Sear has never been touched. None of the gunsmith have done any polishing to anything.

I assume your referring to a factory trigger spring? This trigger does not use the factory style spring set up. Only has a small spring under pull adjustment screw. Only spring in the assembly.

Btw, where does one get a lighter factory type spring? The spring on my .243 has lost its arch.

The issue is most def trigger related. Nary an issue till this post Timney arrived many years ago. Not ruling out a possible mainspring issue with the hangfire/missfire...

In any case...Last night I started out from scratch setting the trigger last night, per the updated instructions on Timneys website. Upped the pull weight to I'd guess 3ish lbs. Trigger is breaking clean. Sear engagement looks correct. No more slam firing. Glad it seems to be working good.

At least on my gun, the trigger cannot be lightened what it is supposed to go to. Originally, many years ago, I wanted a nice target weight trigger. Dont care one bit about that now. Just want it safe and a decent trigger.

As a younger man, I have made the mistake and loaded hang fire rounds myself going below published minimums, maybe we have a failure to communicate. A hang fire is when you hear the click of the firing pin falling, followed by a pause, and then boom. If this is the case it's ammo related. If it's simply failing to fire them maybe something else.

A lighter factory style spring for the pre accutrigger setup can be made fairly easily from a small piece of music wire around .043 from a piano shop or real hardware store (most big box wont have it) using a pair of needle nose pliers. Some guys have even used a piece of wire from the arm of of a spinner bait.
As far as returning the arch to your factory .243 spring it can be done using the "pull adjustment screw" I refer to it as the "trigger return spring" adjustment screw since it does more than adjust pull weight, and affects trigger reset. When replacing the spring adjust this screw so that is has a slight arch in the spring this should ensure positive reset between the trigger and sear.
Long ago I found out the hard way about having the spring too flat and what can happen when the safety is released on one improperly adjusted and with the screws not chemically locked down. Fortunately the rifle was in use at the range and the bullet simply went down range into the berm when the safety was released rather than destroying something unintended. The blow the bolt assembly screw under recoil caused to my thumb on the safety was the hard lesson.

You might try to clean and lubricate the internals of the bolt. My old man was a big fan of WD 40. Every firearm that my siblings and I inherited had to be thoroughly cleaned of the crud, gum and varnish left in them by old lubricant before they would run right.
Good luck and sounds like you're getting there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by big honkin jeep

As a younger man, I have made the mistake and loaded hang fire rounds myself going below published minimums, maybe we have a failure to communicate. A hang fire is when you hear the click of the firing pin falling, followed by a pause, and then boom. If this is the case it's ammo related. If it's simply failing to fire them maybe something else.

A lighter factory style spring for the pre accutrigger setup can be made fairly easily from a small piece of music wire around .043 from a piano shop or real hardware store (most big box wont have it) using a pair of needle nose pliers. Some guys have even used a piece of wire from the arm of of a spinner bait.
As far as returning the arch to your factory .243 spring it can be done using the "pull adjustment screw" I refer to it as the "trigger return spring" adjustment screw since it does more than adjust pull weight, and affects trigger reset. When replacing the spring adjust this screw so that is has a slight arch in the spring this should ensure positive reset between the trigger and sear.
Long ago I found out the hard way about having the spring too flat and what can happen when the safety is released on one improperly adjusted and with the screws not chemically locked down. Fortunately the rifle was in use at the range and the bullet simply went down range into the berm when the safety was released rather than destroying something unintended. The blow the bolt assembly screw under recoil caused to my thumb on the safety was the hard lesson.

You might try to clean and lubricate the internals of the bolt. My old man was a big fan of WD 40. Every firearm that my siblings and I inherited had to be thoroughly cleaned of the crud, gum and varnish left in them by old lubricant before they would run right.
Good luck and sounds like you're getting there.

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No, we were on the same page. 1st 2 tmes at the range it missfired. Last night, it hung. Same s scenario as shooting a sidekick muzzleloader.

The 2 rounds it hung, the primer was noticeable dimpled less. The rounds it missfired on formerly, the primers looked the same, but even less dimpled.

Thanks for the info about the trigger spring. I have several spinnerbaits lying around that I dont use. I'll try to make one.

Have you checked your headspace?

Also, a trigger replacement would easily take care of your issues!

With a lot of patience, I have gotten "factory" triggers around 3oz's!

JMO, Dennis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dennis

Have you checked your headspace?

Also, a trigger replacement would easily take care of your issues!

With a lot of patience, I have gotten "factory" triggers around 3oz's!

JMO, Dennis

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No, I haven't checked headspace. Not sure why that would be an issue? I shot the gun for 10ish years before the issues started, after trigger was replaced.

Put 19 rounds through it yesterday. Gun worked fine.

So, for whatever reason, this trigger as it sits, wont work correctly below 3ish lbs. But very happy that gun is useable!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fast72beeper

No, I haven't checked headspace. Not sure why that would be an issue? I shot the gun for 10ish years before the issues started, after trigger was replaced.

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Start with the basics, and move forward. I have had a few where "headspace" became an issue, and one that developed an issue with the sear. And both shot fine for years.

I start from scratch and rule out the obvious.

JMO, Dennis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dennis

Start with the basics, and move forward. I have had a few where "headspace" became an issue, and one that developed an issue with the sear. And both shot fine for years.

I start from scratch and rule out the obvious.

JMO, Dennis

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Headspace can't simple "become" an issue if you haven't touched the barrel or changed bolt parts. Only thing that could cause anything headspace related would be improperly sized cases. That's an ammo issue, not a headspace issue.

Check the crown....