Savage heavy barrel vs. sporter (regular) barrel

I had the oppurtunity for great weather conditions today for rimfire shooting, so I did a little comparison between a Savage MKII BV (heavy barrel) and a Savage MKII F (sporter / reg. barrel).

Both rifles were shot off a bipod and rear bag, optic set on 14x. In order to see how each handled different ammo I used Aguila Golden Eagle Match Rifle, Wolf Match Target, CCI Blazer, and Federal Bulk Pack. The barrel of both rifles were dry swabbed until the patch ran clean. The trigger in the BV is at 1lb and has a wood laminate stock, the trigger in the F is at 2lbs 10 oz and has a synthetic stock. Both barrels are freefloated (a good 1/8" or more from the stock) all the way back to the receiver.

Tempurature 55deg F, no measurable wind, cloudy, 60% humidity. Size of bull at 50 is 1", at 100 the bull is 1.5".

I first measured the barrels from muzzle to where the barrels meet the receiver, both measured at 19 13/16" (just over 19 3/4"). Savage has them both listed at 21", they must be including the chamber area inside the receiver.

[color:#FF0000]BV model[/color]
[img width=434 height=450]http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/WALTERRO/mkii%20barrel%20stuff/mkiibvlength-Copy.jpg[/img]

[color:#FF0000]F model[/color]
[img width=439 height=450]http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/WALTERRO/mkii%20barrel%20stuff/mkiifvlength-Copy.jpg[/img]

The taped hits were sighters to get the groups in the general area of the bull. Distances was 50 and 100 yards, 5 round groups. A ten round group may have produced more dramatic results as to let the barrels "settle in" more to the ammo change, but I only had 20 rounds of Wolf MT ammo cover shooting each barrel at each distance. I did notice that even the second shot was "off" from the final three in just about every group, either barrel. Again, the barrel was dry swabbed between ammo changes. NOTE: the targets are mislabeled, the "FV" should read "F" as it is the sporter / regular barrel.

[color:#FF0000]50 yards[/color]
[img width=335 height=450]http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/WALTERRO/mkii%20barrel%20stuff/50yaguilaandwolf.jpg[/img]
[img width=335 height=450]http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/WALTERRO/mkii%20barrel%20stuff/50ydblazerandfedbulk.jpg[/img]

[color:#FF0000]100 yards[/color]
[img width=335 height=450]http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/WALTERRO/mkii%20barrel%20stuff/100ydaguilaandwolf.jpg[/img]
[img width=335 height=450]http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/WALTERRO/mkii%20barrel%20stuff/100ydblazerandfedbulk.jpg[/img]

My impressions where that the heavy barrel handled the Match and High Velocity ammo 1st shot out of a "clean" barrel better than the F model sporter barrel at both 50 and 100 yards, and generally the heavy barrel had better groups with both Match and High Velocity ammo, at both distances.

Also as I'm considering cutting back the barrel on the F model to 18" (16.75" from front of receiver to muzzle), the above post will help tie in if performance is enhanced by the shorter barrel in a .22lr.

Shortening the barrel will not happen until after the end of the smallbore silhouette season in late October, and in between some squirrel hunting. But when it is shortened, measurements will be taken on FPS and group size at 50 and 100 yards for every inch lost. Then the shorter sporter barrel will be shot against the 20" heavy barrel to see if the shorter length stiffened the barrel any more, or any performance differences are made, again using Match and High Velocity ammo.

I'm really curious as hell if the shorter regular barrel will improve performance enough to be better than a longer regular barrel, or even equal to a heavy barrel except with out the added weight.

Your results mirror my less rigorous testing. I have a MkIIGL (sporter weight blued barrel, hardwood stock) and a MkIIBTVLS (heavy stainless barrel, laminated thumbhole stock). I free floated the GL and the BTVLS came that way out of the box. Both have Accutriggers set at about 2.5 pounds. All of my testing is from solid sand bag rests on a sturdy bench.

The heavy barrel significantly out groups the sporter with all brands and types of ammo I have tried. The GL tends to throw about one "flyer" from each 5-shot group, not wildly out of the group but enough to make a difference. The heavy barrel gun shoots much tighter, more "symetrical" groups.

Top Predator --

Thanks for your report. I have wondered if it was really worth the extra bucks for the heavy barrels in a .22 rimfire and your report shows that it definitely is.

Thanks also to Cycler for his info.

BTW, regarding the barrel length measurements -- Savage, like many (most??), if not all manufacturers, is apparently measuring their barrels as per the BATF's definition; i.e.: from the bolt-face to the muzzle, with the action closed, of course. I had always thought that it was measured from where the chamber ends/the rifling begins to the muzzle, but I guess that difference of definition could result in the BATF declaring what you or I would think was a legal minimum-length barreled rifle to be a SBR.

Thanks again and Good Shooting!

Pat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fenian

BTW, regarding the barrel length measurements..... but I guess that difference of definition could result in the BATF declaring what you or I would think was a legal minimum-length barreled rifle to be a SBR.

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Actually your definition (measured from the front of the chamber) would leave the barrel longer than the BATF requirements by the length of the chamber. A .22LR case is about 0.60" long from the rim to the case mouth so if you cut your barrel to 16" measured from the front of the chamber to the muzzle, the BATF would measure it at 16.6" and you'd be fine.

Before I purchased my MKII BSEV I shot a friend's Sport barrel and had difficulty finding the center circle of the target. At the time I thought it was me and not the rifle. After I got my BSEV I tested a dozen various ammo's and THE WORST group at 50 yards was the size of a nickle while the best group was inside of a dime.

[img width=600 height=148]http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/Golfbuddy45/SavageMKIIBSEVRightSide.jpg[/img]

I am just a target shooter so everything I buy is a heavy barrel - except my 3 Stainless Steel Marlin Levers - .44Mag, .45-70, and .30-30.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cycler

Actually your definition (measured from the front of the chamber) would leave the barrel longer than the BATF requirements by the length of the chamber. A .22LR case is about 0.60" long from the rim to the case mouth so if you cut your barrel to 16" measured from the front of the chamber to the muzzle, the BATF would measure it at 16.6" and you'd be fine.

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i'm doing another project on the sporter barrel, cutting it down to see if it will reduce "whip", and what effects it will have on FPS and group size. i measured from the bolt face to the muzzle with a cleaning rod, marked it with tape, then measured. it came to 21.75".

so when i take off 3 inches, i don't know if the new length should be called 18.75" (from the bolt face measurement), 17" (from the 21" advertised length), or 16.75" (from the muzzle to receiver length).

I never realized the importance of barrel harmonics till I met a guy at a local gun shop who is a member of the NBRSA - National Bench Rest Shooters Association. He has won numerous national events in .22LR competition. I thought I was doing good shooting inside the head of a dime. These people measure their shots in THOUSANDTHS of an inch from the dot in the center of the target and the "10" ring is 1/2 inch diameter. They shoot one shot at 25 targets at 50 and 100 yards. My new friend shot 25 TENS and 20 of those were 10X meaning he knocked out the center dot or an aggregate of 25 shots coming out to .095 MOA. Oh, did I mention these are OUTDOORS with crosswinds and temperature and humidity variations?

So after a lengthy conversation on the custom rifles they shoot and BARREL TUNERS I got home and checked out this website and it is mind boggling looking at all of these images of what a .22LR barrel can do every time you shoot it. Gave me a whole new perspective on barrel design and function.

http://varmintal.com/amode.htm

A full blown BR .22 is going to leave any stock .22 rifle in the dust. I almost had my greedy little mitts on a great one about 8 months ago but I waited too long and it got away from me. It turned out ok though because I bought my 12 LRPV instead and that thing is the cat's meow. Still a MkII with a varmint barrel is nothing to sneeze at. I've shot 5 round groups of .111 with mine at 50 yards. I also shoot ARA targets where 2500 is perfect. My best target has been a 2150 which is right up there with a lot of custom built rifles. It isn't a world class shooter by any means. The real talent shoots perfect scores from time to time. I know a guy who does that. He has helped me a lot with my shooting.

A top level BR rimfire usually means a really good receiver (like a 40X, an Anshutz, a Turbo or a Hall or maybe a Suhl) with a high quality trigger (Jewell etc.) with a barrel from Shilen or Benchmark or Hart and a BR stock from McMillen or Myers or Hall and a tuner from one of many places and most of all it needs to be put together by someone who really knows what they're doing. That's the kind of rifle you'll need to win major BR competitions. I could have bought one for $1000 last winter but I blew it. Still I'm completely happy with my Savage. I got really lucky on that rifle too. It shoots great groups in stock form and if I add a SSS Competition Trigger I would expect it to get even better. I'll be doing that sometime soon.

If my MkII was more consistent (I've tried to work out the problem for over a year now) I believe it can shoot even better scores on the ARA targets I shoot. I shoot off of sandbags which is one thing that could be improved. But shooting competition only has a limited appeal to me especially at my club because they like to shoot for money and I have religious scruples about that. I may join a different club where they don't shoot for money. There's one a lot closer to me but they don't have a long range setup though. I may join both to be honest.

Since posting my note about accurate rifles and harmonics I have met a BR AMERICA champion and have learned a ton about those tournaments. He is rated up near the top in .22LR category and uses a 100% custom made rifle - when I asked him what the ACTION was thinking Savage or Remington or Ruger he said a name I never heard of and in fact NOTHING in his rifles are what would be considered normal manufacturer made.

And as for AMMO - he told me he drove all the way to Atlanta (6 hour drive one way) to buy a case of ONE SPECIFIC LOT of Wolf's top grade .22LR ammo. After seeing all the flags and wind monitors and all the other paraphernalia they use in addition to the high end bench rests that can adjust in micrometer measures I decided I am not quite ready to get into that venue. You have to be able to shoot the center out of 30 targets with one bullet in each just to enter the matches. Way too much for me. I am satisfied with shooting at our County Indoor range up with 6 ranges from 50 to 100 meters with my rifles and pistols and pleased with dime sized groups.

By the way I only had my .22 BSEV when I posted the first note in this thread but since have added a 93BTVS in .22 Magnum and absolutely love the rifle.

[img width=600 height=270]http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/Golfbuddy45/SAVAGEMKIIBSEV22LR-Savage93BTVS22Magnum.jpg[/img]

I also have a friend that shoots in ARA competitions or at least he did a few years ago. He's taught me a lot about benchrest shooting. He has done exceptionally well at it. It all boils down to the barrel according to him. Any of the really good actions can get you there. But you need to learn to read the wind and how to find the right ammo for your rifle. From there it's just a matter of lots and lots of practice and God given talent of course. I had a chance to buy a custom built rifle from him but by the time I got the cash ready he had started to have problems with his own rifle and he was using the one he was going to sell to me. So I ended up buying my LRPV instead. I've been very happy with that rifle though so it worked out for me.