Thinking a high BC 125 grain match bullet for the 25 Creedmoor, .25 x 47L etc....
Thinking a high BC 125 grain match bullet for the 25 Creedmoor, .25 x 47L etc....
I guess if great things were happening by people using custom bullets in a 25 something or other, more probably would.
But it might be more profitable and maybe smart, to let somebody else do the R&D, then climb on board later.
Hunters might complain about lack of heavier bullets for the 25, but do they use enough to justify developing them?
And it's not like their suffering for lack of anything good anyway.
Sierra spent considerable time and expense developing a 250 gr 30 cal, with which a 1000 yd world record 10 shot group was shot by Earl Chronister who was very instrumental in getting it made.
But they later scrapped it in favor of the 240.
Ditto with the 338, they developed a 320 gr first, which were well received, but the research went on anyway and they settled on a 300 gr.
Meanwhile Berger just watched, the how to books came later. lol
That is the discussion points I was looking for. I agree one hundred percent. Bullet companies made lots of money in the last few years. The Creedmoor and the 47L's are moping up in sales. I really dont understand the lack of interest in the 25 souper. I think there is an opportunity in the 25's. Not only for the paper punchers and gongsters but for whitetail, blacktail, antelope, songdogs etc...
The 25/06 has a pretty decent following, id say most of the owners which includes me, would like a heavier bullet offering.
The 257 Weatherby could certainly use a heavier bullet also.
I wish I had saved my money when I built my 6.5 wsm and used the 25/06 I already had instead for Antelope.
Antelope are pretty easy to put down, I know nothing about Blacktails or Coues deer either, but I wouldn't be using one on a whitetail at long range.
The 6.5/06 would be a better choice, and there aren't any shortages of good bullets.
Face it.....the quarter bores are not sexy anymore. Back in 1915 when Savage debuted the .250 Savage, Mae West was getting quite a following too.:p
42+ years ago a friend's father had a .25-06 on a Remington 700 with an Unertl scope. It was a thing of beauty and would do 1/2 MOA often enough. With varmint bullets.
The .250-3000 Savage came long before and was a revolution . . . but they opted for the lighter bullets to get the velocity up.
THAT has been the flaw of the .25 bore. They should have embraced higher sectional densities, spun the bullets faster, and let the velocities drop.
But then again, if you needed to kill bigger stuff the .30-06 was plentiful and capable. And a gozillion surplus receivers waiting to be sporterized. The .25 WAS a varmint sized bore.
The industry has gotten a bit better with bullet design (though the Hornady SST - maybe too much too soon - some of us want to eat what we shoot).
Not really much difference between .257 and .264.
Id bet if they could, the bullet makers would rather send it to where the G M sent the Pontiac.
Ditto the 8mm and probably a few others.
You might be right. Not much difference in the 277 and the 284 either. That is the thinking that got my attention anyway. Mae west huh? I wonder what she would have looked like today in her prime?
Smart and attractive. I like that in a girl ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
https://hips.hearstapps.com/toc.h-cd.../mae-west5.jpg
That's the kind of stuff that starts legends, and sent old Joe Kennedy to Hollywood.
Harveygate was a long time a coming, and we will never hear about all of it.
...aaaand back to the .25's and away from the 35-24-35.
I also wonder when the .250 Savage came out what percentage of the hunting rifles in the US were lever actions (including the M1899). Scopes would have been passing rare, and it was years until surplus bolt actions came available.
If you wanted a nice small bore - the 6.5 x 54mm Mannlicher-Schönauer was several years old and killing lions and elephants by then.
All I know is the 25-06 with 87 gr Noslers will punt a fat old groundhog about 10 feet in the air when hit in the boiler room, and that I have a .250 Savage that I'm still waiting to put the first round through once Fred gets it punched out to 250 AI. Last but not least....I still want a lever action in .25-35 Win. just because I have a lever gun addiction and like quarter-bores.
First off let me say I agree with you, simply to the fact that it could be the meeting point of the .264/.243 for a precision/hunting round. You can easily push a 125grs proj. up in the 3000fps range in any of the standard cases currently in use for 6mm to 30cal chamberings. Maybe you'd get a little more velocity than a 6.5 and maybe you'd get a little more barrel life than a 6, but ballistics wise you're still splitting hairs and not going to see a lot of bang for your buck in those regards.
Figure this:
***Using Avg Velocities for standard 308 based Short Action Configs****
140gr Berger Hybrid has a G7 of .311 and most shoot them near 2800fps range.
130gr Hybrid G7 of .287. Mostly shot between 2900-2950fps.
105 Hybrid G7 of .275 around 3050fps avg (2975fps in a Dasher) unless you're really screaming them
115 DTAC G7 of .315 2975-3025fps in most cases
So figure they make a 125gr they'll likely end up somewhere are a G7 of .300-.320 and be able to shoot it in the 3000fps range. (Likely over estimating the possible BC)
Now excluding long action configurations like the 25-06 (Which I know would love a 125grs high BC Bullet.
What are you really going to get at the end of the day?
Same thing you get when you compare a 6.5 creed to a 6.5x55 or .260 Rem. Another option. Just because a cartridge duplicates the performance of another has never stopped anyone in the past. Anyone who knows me knows that I am a 25 / 6.5 fanatic. I would jump all over a heavy 25 cal bullet, but truth be told the 115gr Berger does anything and everything a guy could want from a 25 cal. Another truth is that the .250 Savage loaded with a 100gr match king at 3000 fps or the 115 at 2800 is a solid performer and can bang steel with the best of them at 600 yards. If there were some guys willing to give that old cartridge a chance and use it in these new prs style matches I would bet they would be pleasantly surprised. Recoil is very mild probably wouldn't even need a brake and they dang sure wouldn't need to mark their brass so they don't lose it.
Those bullets may be good to 600yds, but hell a 308 is good to 600yds. They loose drastically beyond that point in the wind due to low BC. They also bleed off velocity in comparison and eventually lose out to both the 6 and 6.5's. It might fair pretty well at a local match, but on the national level I'm definitely not giving up that much ground just to shoot an old favorite. Of course there would be a couple guys trying out some wildcat's etc. but they would continue to lose to the x47, Creed, and BR case variants. We've had guys try 7 WSSM's, 7 SAUMs, 6.5 SAUM, the new PRC, but in the end they just aren't getting the consistency and reliability of a well tuned 6 or 6.5.
Could it be another option, sure, but are you going to see any manufacturer try to make a jump on it.... highly doubt it.... best 6's are the 6 Dasher and 6XC, best 6.5 is the 6.5x47 with the 6.5 creed very close, but the x47 is more consistent.
Of course I'm basing this on PRS style competition which pretty much consumes all types of shooting into one event. You're either going to give up recoil reduction or consistency to try to beat these cartridges. In the end you're only going to match them at best, but then the work put into finding or making the brass doesn't really make it worth it either and if Lapua or Alpha aren't making brass that can used for it I'm not going to shoot it in competition. Other brass just takes to much time to get right or wears out to quickly.
We all know the downfalls of the 25 cals. I am not disputing the fact that yes they can beat by both the 6's and the 6.5s. All I am saying is that they are capable cartridges and could probably raise some eyebrows if anyone would give them a chance. Problem is, no one will so it's never going to happen.
:smile-new: yep. Many shooters in F-Class and PRS are shooting 6mm's and 6.5mm's. A well thought out quarter bore would put a smile on my face. And it would be 'Merica!
Remember the .256 Win? A .357 Mag necked down to .25" What a friggin pain that one was in a 10" Contender. At the same time T/C had a .25-35 and, boy, do I wish I picked up one of those.
Lots of custom bullet makers out there supplying serious shooters, im sure most of them would consider a good thing that might boost the bottom line. If not, theres always room for others. Lots of people have made small fortunes by starting with just such an idea.
Lots more have made small ones out of large ones, and that could be the main issue, unless of coarse it's OPs money.
I spent some time at the Cutting Edge facility a couple years back. There were several machines there untended turning out bullets.
Every now and then some young guy walked over and took a peek, then walked to other machines doing other things and took a peek at those. So it would seem this idea could well be an easy way to a bigger house and boat, just crying out for somebody to do it.
Look up the discussion on this same topic on the hide. Blackjack bullets has a 131 grain VLD style bullet. First batches are shipping soon, based on what I've read in the thread.
https://blackjackbullets.com/?v=7516fd43adaa
I wonder how happy Blackjack was over the new 1000 yd record shot with a 6mm?
All he needs is for somebody to set a record using his bullets and the stampede would begin.
Think i'll just stay with my 30/06 and 308 and forget the 6.5 build as all i have just now is a barrel