Acceptable group size?

Preface: I'm a centerfire shooter, shot 1K comp back in the 90's, reloader at heart. Basically, meaning, I'm not brand new plinking.

That said:

I recently bought a new MKII bull barrel. Bone stock other than a 20MOA EGW rail and an Athlon 5-24X50 scope and I put it in a Boyd At-One stock. After 200-300 rounds, the best group I can hold at 100yrds is 1.5" As a reloader, this is driving me nuts!!! And is totally unacceptable. However, I have no control over rimfire loads. So, I don't know if this is expected and acceptable. Granted, this IS acceptable for a squirrel gun. But, I want this to be a respected PRS style rimfire. My intention is to use it for "E"LR rimfire matches (out to say 350. Which, I have tested it at 300 and it maintains an 8". But that, too, was with a 3-ish L-R wind)

Oh yeah, ammo tried: Wolf match, Dynamint match and Eley Black box match. With each new brand, I ran 10-15 rounds thru, before checking group size. Best groups are from Wolf Match.

I basically would like like to know if I need to be satisfied(which probably ain't gonna happen) or go deeper into the rabbit hole!

You can't change the rim fire ammo load so think about adding something that will tune that ammo? Big thing in RF Comp shooting is a "Tuner". Find the ammo that shoots the best in YOUR rig then try a tuner to make the groups smaller. My thinking is, 10 to 15 shots isn't enough to find out which works best in your rig. Sounds like the Wolf Match will get the job done? Maybe a full box to get your average? THEN, top it off with a "Tuner" and compare the results. And it'll probably take more than a box "or two" to get the results you're after. And shooting more ammo isn't a bad thing.:cool:

Update:

Deeper down the rabbit hole I go.

After about 1100 rounds of various ammo, mainly Wolf Match, since I have several thousand rounds on hand, the groups have tightened up considerable.

Best 5 groups to date is .538" at 100 yards with Lapua Center X. Wolf Match Target holds a consistent .696" at the same range. Other than finding ammo it likes, the next thing was tinkering the torque. Mine like 13"/lbs on the action screws. As strange as it sounds, 14"/lbs and the groups open up considerably. At 17"/lbs they grow crazy big!

Another thing I've found. Mine like to be cleaned around 140-150 rounds. I notice the groups opening up right at about 140 rounds. After cleaning and 5-8 fouling rounds....the groups shrink right back down, until I hit 140.

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Originally Posted by A&8's

Update:

Deeper down the rabbit hole I go.

After about 1100 rounds of various ammo, mainly Wolf Match, since I have several thousand rounds on hand, the groups have tightened up considerable.

Best 5 groups to date is .538" at 100 yards with Lapua Center X. Wolf Match Target holds a consistent .696" at the same range. Other than finding ammo it likes, the next thing was tinkering the torque. Mine like 13"/lbs on the action screws. As strange as it sounds, 14"/lbs and the groups open up considerably. At 17"/lbs they grow crazy big!

Another thing I've found. Mine like to be cleaned around 140-150 rounds. I notice the groups opening up right at about 140 rounds. After cleaning and 5-8 fouling rounds....the groups shrink right back down, until I hit 140.

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Good info thanks

FYI, my scope ran out of travel when shooting to 400 yards even with a 20moa EGW rail. I ended up getting some Burris Signature Z ring for a total of 35 moa.

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Originally Posted by A&8's

Other than finding ammo it likes, the next thing was tinkering the torque. Mine like 13"/lbs on the action screws. As strange as it sounds, 14"/lbs and the groups open up considerably. At 17"/lbs they grow crazy big!

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Would bedding the action help here?

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

Would bedding the action help here?

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There just isn't much to bed to. I've talked to a lot of bench rest rimfire shooters and they said they haven't had any noticeable difference after bedding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A&8's

Update:

Deeper down the rabbit hole I go.

After about 1100 rounds of various ammo, mainly Wolf Match, since I have several thousand rounds on hand, the groups have tightened up considerable.

Best 5 groups to date is .538" at 100 yards with Lapua Center X. Wolf Match Target holds a consistent .696" at the same range. Other than finding ammo it likes, the next thing was tinkering the torque. Mine like 13"/lbs on the action screws. As strange as it sounds, 14"/lbs and the groups open up considerably. At 17"/lbs they grow crazy big!

Another thing I've found. Mine like to be cleaned around 140-150 rounds. I notice the groups opening up right at about 140 rounds. After cleaning and 5-8 fouling rounds....the groups shrink right back down, until I hit 140.

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My FV-SR groups also open up at about 140 shots and a quick barrel clean brings the small groups back. I will try different action screw torque settings to find the sweet spot so thanks for the tip.

Not sure if it's applicable because I dont own a rimfire Savage, but can it be torque tuned using the action screws? I know that with the centerfires it can make a big difference.
maybe off base but just a thought.

Well I have never shot at 1000 yds before but if I was getting a consistent .696 (at 100 of course) with just about any rifle, much less a 22lr, I would be tickled pink.

Nice pointers to learn though.

Yesterday I shot about 20 5 shot groups from my FV-SR and my best was .520 horizontal and .640 vertical @ 70 yards. I experimented with an Otis bore snake and found that it made for better groups when used. I have been trying many different rounds (more than 20) and the best was the Remington golden bullet RN and #2 was Win. 555 HP double in size but much better than a couple others. I am wondering what those who are getting small groups are doing as a barrel cleaning routine to get the best groups? Frequency and methods used for best results is my interest just to get an idea to help my groupings. Ammo brands and types seems to be all over the map as far as an individual rifle is concerned but please list any standouts that are consistent. I appreciate all replies.

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Originally Posted by Marine

I am wondering what those who are getting small groups are doing as a barrel cleaning routine to get the best groups? Frequency and methods used for best results is my interest just to get an idea to help my groupings. Ammo brands and types seems to be all over the map as far as an individual rifle is concerned but please list any standouts that are consistent. I appreciate all replies.

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Mine starts to open groups at 140 rounds. So, I clean about 120 or so. I only shoot lead thru mine (Lapua Center-X), so I just use traditional cleaning methods with a nylon brush and Pro-Shot Products "1-Step."

I shot 24 5 shot groups at 50 yards today and the best was .240 horizontal and .185 vertical using Eley target. Another with CCI SV measured .520 H. and .210 V. and one with CCI green tag at .560 H. .410V. and there were other good groups each with one flyer that pushed the size to or near to 1 inch. For the modest price of $250 my FV-SR is a real bargain. I have about 2000 rounds through it now and it seems to get more accurate the more I shoot it. It is making me a better shot with all the trigger time, I love this little gun.

I've recently heard a good RF brush helps get the gunk out of the bore. That said, I too liked the Wolf Match (actually I like the Target better) until I tried the Eley Club. Won't break the bank either. The Club seems to work best in all my 22's, Rem 513T, Win 61, Rem 582 (which needs work) and the Sav BVTSS. The 513T is still the best shooter, it's got the tightest lock up and the chamber is tighter than the others too. It just feels better overall except for the dumb trigger. But 100 yds is a tough one for the 22, usually velocity helps too.

I shot HP for 10 years with M1A1 and going to the 22 is a whole different ball game.

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Originally Posted by A&8's

There just isn't much to bed to. I've talked to a lot of bench rest rimfire shooters and they said they haven't had any noticeable difference after bedding.

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I do not claim to know but i have read that if you can tune a rifle with action screws, bedding will help. However it sounds like your rifle is shooting very well as is!

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Originally Posted by PlanB

I do not claim to know but i have read that if you can tune a rifle with action screws, bedding will help. However it sounds like your rifle is shooting very well as is!

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Yeah, I adjusted the action screws to find the best groups.

See:
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...l=1#post435453

I have settled on CCI-SV as my go to ammo for its low cost and small groups. To beat the accuracy of this round I must triple the cost of shooting for rather modest gains. If I were a competition shooter of course I would spend the money for matches but for improving my skills on the bench I can shoot a lot more at under $3 a box.