MSR .224 Groups Getting Progressively Worse

This will be a somewhat lengthy post, so TIA for your time. Here's my problem - I recently bought a new MSR in .224 Valkyrie. Before breaking it in, I stripped it down, thoroughly cleaned the barrel and BCG, lubricated the action, and mounted a Vortex Razor HD in a Badger unimount. I broke it in by firing one round and cleaning the barrel for the first five rounds. Then I fired two rounds and cleaned the barrel for an additional ten rounds. then I fired five rounds and cleaned the barrel until I finished off a 50 round box of AE 75 gr. This method has always served me well with my three Savage bolt guns. During the break-in, I got a rough 100 yard zero on the scope. I then began firing the 90 gr SMK and around the 100 round mark, I was getting nice 1/2" groups from the bench shooting off a bipod and rear bag. Around the 200 round mark, I noticed the groups starting to open up significantly with both the 75 gr AE and 90 gr SMK. Total round count as of this posting is about 400. I don't expect great consistency from the 75 gr, but it was holding about 1.25" or so when everything was going well. This weekend the rifle struggled to shoot anything under two inches with either ammo while being shot the same way that had previously gotten me the 1/2" group. I started troubleshooting by removing the hand guard and checking the barrel nut for correct torque. It didn't budge when the wrench hit the 35 ft lb mark, so I left it alone. I checked the brake and all seemed well there, too. I disassembled the BCG and made sure everything was clean and tight there. In the interest of being thorough, I also swapped optics and confirmed that with a completely different setup that the problem was still present. Just for peace of mind, I installed the Razor from the MSR onto my 6.5 CM and immediately shot a 3/8" group, so I'm 100% certain it's not an optic issue. During the troubleshooting process, I thoroughly cleaned the barrel on two different occasions with Butch's Bore shine to insure there was no fouling present that would effect accuracy. Clean or fouled makes no real difference. Visual inspection of the bore revealed nothing to the naked eye, but I can't get a good view of the throat. I haven't made any gas system adjustments because it's ejecting about 4 o'clock and has never had any feeding or extracting issues. The only upgrades to the rifle are an ambi charging handle, a PRS gen 3, and Atlas bipod. I want to cover as many bases as I can before sending the rifle back to Savage and any input you have is greatly appreciated.

with your change of stock are you running the same length pull? How comfortable are you shooting with the Atlas bipod and were you getting the groups you were previously using the atlas bipod? Has your two types of ammo been the same lot# this entire time?

These are things I would consider before throwing in the towel. When you change the format of the rifle, many times there's a learning curve in getting it to shoot right again. Different stock can affect both eye relief and comb height behind the scope. new bipod may recoil differently than your previous one. Different lot of ammo may not be the same velocity etc.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

with your change of stock are you running the same length pull? How comfortable are you shooting with the Atlas bipod and were you getting the groups you were previously using the atlas bipod? Has your two types of ammo been the same lot# this entire time?

These are things I would consider before throwing in the towel. When you change the format of the rifle, many times there's a learning curve in getting it to shoot right again. Different stock can affect both eye relief and comb height behind the scope. new bipod may recoil differently than your previous one. Different lot of ammo may not be the same velocity etc.

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The PRS and the Atlas have been on the rifle since day one. The LOP is set up the same as my other rifles and I'm very comfortable with the Atlas and how it loads. They're on all my precision rifles since I switched from Harris about a year ago. The ammo has been the same lot number for match ammo but two different lots for the 75 gr TMJ's. Eye relief and comb height are set for bench and prone shooting and I have done both during my troubleshooting effort with similar results from both positions.

Thanks for the input and if you have anything else, please throw it out there.

My last thought is maybe you've over cleaned the barrel. I had a buddy with his 6 Creed barrel started to open up. He cleaned it back to raw and it took something like 70-80rds before it tightened back up and started shooting again.

Some may not agree but if that happened to me, I would use a good sled bed and go shoot. Eliminate yourself from the list of potential problems you think is causing the issue.

The other thing I've learned over the years with regards to shooting off a bipod is that for me, loading the bipod has been the least accurate way of shooting from it. The issue is that it is impossible to load the bipod the same way every time. I now pull the rifle back into my shoulder with my firing hand and letting it naturally sit against my shoulder eliminating load on the bipod instead. This can be done consistently every time which has made me a better prone shooter over time.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

My last thought is maybe you've over cleaned the barrel. I had a buddy with his 6 Creed barrel started to open up. He cleaned it back to raw and it took something like 70-80rds before it tightened back up and started shooting again.

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I would be more inclined to think this the case if it didn't have the problem with both a clean and fouled barrel. When I first began to notice the issue, it had over 150 rounds through it. I cleaned it but the groups were no better over the next 150 rounds.

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Originally Posted by bearcatrp

Some may not agree but if that happened to me, I would use a good sled bed and go shoot. Eliminate yourself from the list of potential problems you think is causing the issue.

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I may borrow one and give it a try; it certainly can't hurt. I shot 3/8" groups with two of my other rifles the last time out, so I'd be surprised if it was me, considering this has happened over the last 4 outings with the MSR.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

The other thing I've learned over the years with regards to shooting off a bipod is that for me, loading the bipod has been the least accurate way of shooting from it. The issue is that it is impossible to load the bipod the same way every time. I now pull the rifle back into my shoulder with my firing hand and letting it naturally sit against my shoulder eliminating load on the bipod instead. This can be done consistently every time which has made me a better prone shooter over time.

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I never tried this method before, probably because I was afraid I'd inadvertently collapse the legs when I was using Harris bipods. I'm so in the habit of loading them to the front that I do it subconsciously now, but I'll give it a shot on my next range trip. Do you suppose an inconsistent loading could throw a group from 1/2" to 2"+? This has never been an issue with my bolt guns, but now I'm dealing with an AR platform. I'll try a bag the front, too, to eliminate that possibility.

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Originally Posted by RamTech

I never tried this method before, probably because I was afraid I'd inadvertently collapse the legs when I was using Harris bipods. I'm so in the habit of loading them to the front that I do it subconsciously now, but I'll give it a shot on my next range trip. Do you suppose an inconsistent loading could throw a group from 1/2" to 2"+? This has never been an issue with my bolt guns, but now I'm dealing with an AR platform. I'll try a bag the front, too, to eliminate that possibility.

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You never know. I shoot like junk loading the bipod. You shouldn't be putting any rear pressure on the bipod, you just want the stock against your shoulder.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

You never know. I shoot like junk loading the bipod. You shouldn't be putting any rear pressure on the bipod, you just want the stock against your shoulder.

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I'm willing to try anything that could potentially make me a better shooter. I ordered a bag and will try that with the MSR and then try your suggestion with the bipod this weekend. I appreciate the input.

UPDATE: I sent my rifle in a couple of weeks ago and called today to see if they had any news yet. I spoke with Mike in the service department and he informed me that the MSR .224 rifles are experiencing blown primers due to a chamber issue and accuracy issues due to the twist rate (1:7) of the barrel. He also said that engineering is currently working on a fix, but there is no ETA as to when it will become available, but hinted that it will be at least another month or two. I suspect we'll be seeing a 1:6.5 twist or faster when the fix comes out.

I don't keep up on other forums the way I used to, especially the AR specific ones, so I'm curious to know if all those people buying aftermarket 1:7 twist Valkyrie barrels for their AR's from the dozens of companies offering them are having similar accuracy issues with their barrels or if it's just the Savage barrels.

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Originally Posted by J.Baker

I don't keep up on other forums the way I used to, especially the AR specific ones, so I'm curious to know if all those people buying aftermarket 1:7 twist Valkyrie barrels for their AR's from the dozens of companies offering them are having similar accuracy issues with their barrels or if it's just the Savage barrels.

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I had that same thought, myself. I know Criterion currently offers a 1:7 and they plan to offer a faster twist rate in the future, so I have to think that the 90 gr ammo would likely benefit from it.

So, every one used 1 in 6.5 for the 90s in 223 in F class. Just saying.

That makes the most since yet, seems Savage has problems with existing 223 MSRs,

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Well, my rifle was finally returned to me minus the aftermarket magazine I sent with it because they requested the magazine I was using, even though I didn't have a cycling issue. But that's a story for another thread. Anyway, the rifle had a new barrel installed and they test fired a pair of 10 round groups with group sizes of 1.1" and 1.3". Not spectacular, but for a factory test fire, I figured it wasn't terrible. After all, I don't know what weather conditions, optics, or skill level of the shooter was being used. I cleaned the barrel and mounted my Athlon Cronus BTR back on it again for testing purposes and headed to the range. The first two shots at 50 yards to make sure the optic was on paper went well, so I went to 100 yards and fired a three round group to zero the scope. The group size was about 1/2" with 75 gr TMJ, and I was very happy with what I was seeing. I finished off the first box of TMJ with groups around 3/4" which is what I would expect to see with a warm barrel. Onto a box of 90 gr SMK and the group sizes remained about the same. A bit unexpected, but with the known accuracy issues of early runs of the SMK, I wasn't too concerned. So, now the round count is at 60 and I go back to the TMJ after letting it cool for a bit. I begin to notice the groups opening up again. I know my optic mount is solid, but in the name of due diligence, I double checked the torque - spot on. As I continue to fire 5 round groups, they just open back up, little by little. At the end of the day, with right at 100 rounds through the new barrel, the gun was back to shooting wild and unpredictable groups from both ammunitions with the worst being 4" due to a flyer. I almost forgot to mention that I used two different lots of 75 gr TMJ just to be sure it wasn't a bad batch of ammo and also had a friend fire some of it through is el-cheapo PSA Valkyrie upper and he was getting consistent 1.25 groups with it. I phoned Savage and after speaking with a supervisor, they have agreed to swap out the rifle for another of my choosing. I have pretty much given up on the Valkyrie for the time being but may try again when someone puts out an affordable bolt action chambered in .224.

Go back for one more session. I do not know your experience level so I am going to go back to basics. Lay your ammo out on a towel in the shade. Let them normalize. Get everything set up and ready to fire. Place one round in the mag and insert it into the mag well with bolt open. Get your sights close. Bipod relaxed, hand relaxed, finger in the correct position opposite hand under the butt. Butt lightly pulled into your shoulder. Repeat everything the exact same way every time. Correct you position if needed, I shoot better if my shoulders are somewhat square to the target. Drop the bolt and fire without getting into a hurry.

Release the mag and put another cartridge in the mag. Repeat the rest of the steps and fire. Feel the barrel. Make note. Continue this for your group count. Remember to not chamber the cartridge until you are ready to shoot. If the chamber is hot it will change the pressure. Do not let the barrel get too hot to touch when you are shooting for groups. Try to maintain barrel temperature within a reasonable range. Do not let a cartridge sit in a hot chamber when shooting for groups. If you must, pull it out and put a cooler one in.

Good luck.